Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School’s uniformed School Resource Officer Scot Petersen failed to engage spree killer Nikolas Cruz as the teenager murdered 17 people and injured 14 more. Deputy Petersen stood outside the building 14 and waited for backup. This is hardly the first time a law enforcement official has stood by while innocent life was taken . . .
Police entered the Pulse nightclub where Islamic terrorist Omar Mateen was killing patrons — then left. Then waited hours to engage Mateen, while wounded victims bled to death.
Since the Columbine massacre, police have been trained to directly engage an active shooter as soon as possible, without waiting for backup. And while the Supreme Court has ruled that police don’t have a legal obligation to risk their lives to protect us, we expect it. Rightly so, IMHO.
The question is: could you do it? Could you run towards gunfire to save innocent life? While we’re at it, is it reasonable to expect armed teachers to find and confront a spree killer or killers?
We do what we need to do. Not just what we want to do.
It’s a Sheepdog thing, the Sheep wouldn’t understand.
🤠
Yes. The shame of doing nothing while children are dying would be worse than getting shot.
a coward dies a 100 deaths, a brave man only one
Not me. I am not a sheepdog nor am I a LEO. I am a ram. A sheep who has my own weapons to protect what is mine. I am not risking my life unnecessarily for strangers who refuse to take their own self protection seriously.
Yeah, screw those 15 year olds, its their own fault they’re not carrying. WTF dumbass.
My kids are more important to me than anyone else’s kids. Call me a dumbass, but my kids will still have their father. As I said, I am not a sheepdog.
” for strangers who refuse to take their own self protection seriously”
You know those strangers are kids, right? Do your kids carry?
You do realize I was referring to the comment about doing what you have to and being a sheepdog? Not about article. But my statement stands. I am not willingly to run towards any gunfire to save someone elses life. Only if the gunfire is coming from a direction where my family is at.
No, you’re a bitch. Plain and simple. Paint it as hard as you want, bitch.
So what. My kids will still have a father. They are more important then someone elses kids.
+1,000,000
Martin you are a bitch. Fucking pathetic coward you are, saying that you’d let school kids get slaughtered because they aren’t important to you…
Quite the virtue signaler.
Sure. I am a coward because i dont carry to be responsible for everyone elses lives. I atleast am honest and man enough to admit that. But then again. Internet badasses dont scare me. I also know why I carry. I dont fantasize about being a hero.
You are appalled that i wouldnt run into a gunfight to risk my life for children. My kids are homeschooled so i have zero reason to be on a school campus. Again. I dont carry to protect everyone. Just myself and my family.
Don’t worry, Martin, we can be bitches together.
I understand y’all all pissed off and expect every manly man who was ever a man to man up and take it like a man, but trying to bitch-shame people into sacrificing not only their lives, but their OWN children’s life-with-a-father, is a bitch move. Throw in some of that bread-winner rhetoric you like so much, and now you’re talking about a single widow with a couple of kids and no income. But you don’t care about HIS kids, or HIS life, just like the antis don’t give a shit about YOUR kids or YOUR life.
As a fag, I already know what you think of me, but you people need to be told that you’re every bit as bad as the people who try to take your guns. And if you’re not going to stand with people who maybe don’t agree with you 110%, you’re going to die alone, because some of us – even though we’re on your side and trying to help you – get real goddamned tired of you constantly fighting and pushing us away.
You want the antis to win? Congrats, you’re helping shove your allies out of the ring, and now you’ll have to fight this bout yourselves.
Good luck.
Leave Martin alone.
Every man must deal with his own circumstances, responsibilities and orientation. Martin’s priority are his family and property. Doesn’t sound like a bitch to me.
Thanks Martin for being one of us.
@Casey
Can you put this on a t-shirt? This needs to be on a t-shirt.
I have never seen more no true Scotsman than I have since I’ve been reading this site.
Well said @Casey. Couldn’t agree more with you and @Martin. The parents and teachers of those defenseless children are the problem. Don’t blame us for not defending their kiddos.
Even without allowing the school personnel to arm themselves, there is SO much those students could have been trained to do to actively defend themselves. Apparently, they are more valuable as sacrificial lambs in order to keep certain issues alive for the cursed antis.
Your answer was an honest assessment for you. Screw all the haters, Martin. I ain’t going to fault you. Keep on keepin’ on.
Nearly all of you would flee, or if the shooter was close youd hide… either way youd poop in your pants.
Naturally nearly all of you echo the Marines advertisement and boast that you would immediately sprint toward the danger…
And it goes without saying that unless youve been in a similar situation you have no idea what youd do… in fact some folks who have endangered themselves in the past would have decided it was not worth it…
Yall are a bunch of immature fantasists crowing about “Im gonna do this” and “Im gonna do that”
^ Fake news! ^
Says who? Don’t put me in the same category as you and the Broward County COWARDS!
Army, 196 th LIB 71/72 Nam.
Search and Destroy. Advance, engage and DESTROY.
DeekJockey you were hunkering down in the base at Da Nang in 1971-2 drugging yourself and raping local girls/women in between doing port security.
You did NOT as you childishly boast “Search and Destroy. Advance, engage and DESTROY.”
Like the rest of the defeated US military in 1971-2 you were occupying Vietnam during “Vietnamization” meaning the US military was no longer going on search and destroy/sweep and clear attacks, you were hunkering down at base and launching terrorist attacks from the air against peasants with no air force and no air defenses.
The evidence I cite for this correction to your childish boast is the very website of the very unit you claim to have disserved in. http://www.196th.org/History.htm
By contrast your childish boast is typically evidence-free.
“Says who? Don’t put me in the same category as you and the Broward County COWARDS!
Army, 196 th LIB 71/72 Nam.
Search and Destroy. Advance, engage and DESTROY.”
I have gone in before, during a drive by where my neighbor was killed. So don’t talk like you know everybody.
Some of us are retired 03 Marines… and have been in similar situations.
‘Yall are a bunch of immature fantasists crowing about “Im gonna do this” and “Im gonna do that” . . .
Not necessarily. Collective behavior is a curious thing and many people are influenced by their fight/flight traits. Whether people fight, flee, or wait around to get killed depends on a lot of factors both psychological and physiological. Collective behavior studies, for instance, tell us that two different crowds experiencing the same thing can behave in very different ways. It all depends on how things get defined, with some people running into the danger zone and others holding back. For centuries militaries have worked assiduously to either select out the cowards—those who can’t control their flight impulse and run or melt down at the worst possible moment—or teach them to overcome their initial impulses and stand and fight.
Given our contemporary demographics, America currently has the largest population of private citizens with direct combat experience than at almost any time in our history. So, given the opportunity, when the Really Bad Thing happens there are probably gong to be people around who’ll willingly face danger and come to the aid of others. They’ll do this because having been-there-and-done-that they’ll know what to do and, more importantly, they wouldn’t be able to live with themselves if they didn’t. They’re warriors. They’re the kind of people we call heroes. It’s too bad none of those folks happened to be among the sheriff’s deputy’s who hid behind their cop cars while the kids were being killed.
For the original poster atop: Yeah…. we knew some troll like you would come along and generalize that people would “shit their pants” and be cowardly.
Unfortunately– and I say “unfortunately” because it is NOT fun and it SUCKS– many of us have already encountered the immediate or random or just plain fate or whatever situation where we have had to either 1) Act, or 2) die… or watch others die.
And so, some of us do in fact know what we would do. I personally think… I would feel guilty, but I would try to get one quick text off to a specific loved one (my kid…), and then take a deep breath and just go. And then hope training takes over… and hope that I get lucky… and by god hope that I impact and don’t miss.
It’s a shitty thing, fighting… I know some people like it, but I don’t. But that doesn’t mean I won’t if I have to. And I think because I know this, I also know that there must be many, many other people like this. People who would do the right thing and people who would be willing to trade their life to save others.
Maybe not you. But you sure don’t speak for us… you exploit childrens’ suffering and manipulate their vulnerability to try and control others and destroy their civil liberties…
I think I don’t know how not to go in. Shit, one time I was chasing gunshots with nothing but a machete and the will to use it. (turned out to be an asshat shooting into a hay bale.)
On second thought, in this hypothetical situation, it really depends if its in a sanctuary city or not.
Run towards gun fire in a school? Hell yes. Run towards gun fire in a bar (or any other place where my family is not)? Not likely
That’s my answer as well. If nothing else, with shooting in a school, you can pretty much guess who the bad guy is, even if you’re a little late to the party.
Well put. Gunfire at a bar could be anything, but is probably B.S. that both parties brought on thelmselves. Even if not, it’s unlikely I’d be able to figure it all out in the heat of things to do much good. I’d get out of there and call the police.
Gunfire at a school is different. My first assumption would be that it’s a spree shooter. It would be the opposite with me: if I hesitated, it’s because I would want to confirm whether it actually is a school spree shooter. I wouldn’t want bust in with a Glock and a truck gun, only to find out it’s just some construction. You do what you have to do. It doesn’t make anyone ambo.
Respond to multiple indicating factors (gun fire being only one), and not just “gun fire”. Blood soaked people screaming and running away is a good indicator. You just have to “row up stream” so to speak and you can usually find the threat. People aren’t stupid and they can quickly rationalize i.e. guy running toward gun fire who is not indiscriminately shooting people = good guy. Guy shooting people who people are running away from = bad guy. Any street cop worth his salt and most people for that matter can figure this crap out.
Gun fire at a bar is par the course in some places.
Internet bravado aside, I would not hesitate, especially if I was being PAID to guard the school.
“While we’re at it, is it reasonable to expect armed teachers to find and confront a spree killer or killers?”
Expect them to find and confront? I would encourage it, but no.. shelter in place and shoot the person as they come through the door.
This. Teachers should be armed to protect themselves and their classes – not to act as SWAT to be pieing corners and teaming up for dynamic entries.
Would I “run towards gunfire?” No – be as has occurred in more than one mall shooting, I might very well approach the scene, carefully and stealthily under cover and snipe the SOB in the head, given the opportunity.
“Expect them to find and confront? I would encourage it, but no.. shelter in place and shoot the person as they come through the door.”
That’s what I was thinking. Increase the odds in favor of the innocent this way. We can’t really bank on anyone keeping an oath to sacrifice their lives. What are the statistics on “til death do us part” nowadays? Factor in the chance of actual death. Maybe 10% of those who make a promise to protect actually follow through. Who knows…
About 30% of first marriages end in divorce.
What did I tell you TX_Custodian!?
Change your nick or Ill report you to the TX bar… your a proud member of the Texas Custodial Arts Association, just be yourself : D
“Expect them to find and confront? I would encourage it, but no.. shelter in place and shoot the person as they come through the door.”
The armed teachers are not going to be the SWAT team and would usually be better for them to engage the nut job form an ensconced position.
Hell Yes.
Victory or Valhalla MFer’s!
Damn right. Mars favors the bold, does he not?
Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn’t even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.
― Heraclitus
Is it not his job to ensure the safety of the premises?
Scared – yes.
Advance – that’s part of ensuring safety.
Run blindly into the scene – ehhh…..
Good points.
I hope I would. I also hope I will never need to find out.
The statement above.
This deserves a like button.
I’ve moved towards gunfire before. It’s not a gaurantee, but I’d hope…and feel…I would again.
I hope I would. I also hope I will never need to find out.
My ancestors were in wars, but I was slightly late for Vietnam. Military was generally not enthusiastic about my eyesight ( neither was I ).
Never heard a gun fired in anger.
Did train gun on bad guy about to break into house. Watch the adrenaline rush.
Have watched people die, but not combat related. Not fun.
Have fought some small fires. Smoke really gets to you.
Have cleaned up after tornadoes. Dead chickens all over the county. The smell.
Have kept my wits after me being in really bad car wrecks. Harder than you think when you are about to pass out.
Not much of a hero. Grandfather was. Father maybe.
I’d like to think that I could, but I don’t know. Luckily, I’ve never been in that situation.
With regard to the teachers, what I think is reasonable is for an armed teacher to secure his/her own classroom and protect the students under his/her care, or, if necessary, protect those students while escaping the building.
I think that relying on them to hunt down and eliminate the threat is unrealistic, but armed teachers would substantially harden the target and reduce casualties should another event like this occur.
Good points here as well.
If my job were to protect and serve then hell yes I’m moving toward the sounds of gun fire. As a normal joe… Only if it’s a school or my family is in the building.
As for US ‘normal joes’, fools rush in, to find us making coffee.
Do you think that the typical cop assigned as a School Resource Officer is the type to actually put their life in the line? I know there are exceptions, but I’m talking the average one assigned to the job. I think a teacher who was willing to put in the effort to be trained to do the job is a lot more likely to actually protect the kids.
This is exactly why I do not favor putting everyday cops in the schools, particularly retired LEO’s. We need people who are armed and wiling to engage because that is the best thing to do with deranged school shooters.
Me? Yes, I would go in and engage if possible; particularly if I was there for that purpose. AND, I would volunteer for that job.
Agree. Armed teachers have a commitment to the students, know them, and are themselves targets if the shooter is not stopped. Retired LEOs have no such emotional ties, and are there to make boost their pension income, I would think.
Further, for the same cost as one LEO-type a number of teachers can be trained and maintained, increasing the likelihood of proximity to the shooter if the worst happens.
I disagree. Retired LEO’s like myself have been there and done that. I would be more likely to place myself in danger to save a bunch of students, and more importantly know how to use cover and concealment to get the job done more quickly. Plus, the school district wouldn’t have to pay medical, Social Security or retirement. It would be more like a private contractor rather than an employee. Luckily, my state allows school employees with ccw permits to conceal carry on school grounds and I can continue with my retirement. But, if asked, I would be there in an instant. It’s only going to get worse folks, and no it’s absolutely not the fault of the firearm.
Some of the retired LEOs would be okay, but the retired LEOs do not have skin in the game as a teacher would. Engaging the nut job is obviously optional for the retired LEO, the teacher is going to have to engage the nut job for his life and his students. Or feminine gender as applied.
Ever seen an off duty or retired LEO moonlight on a private sector gig. Try getting ’em to even carry a spare mag, wear a vest, or get up off there chair for anything less than $25 an hour. If a cop can put in his papers rather than get shot, he’s gonna put in his papers 8 out of ten times.
Do you think that the typical cop assigned as a School Resource Officer is the type to actually put their life in the line? I think a teacher who was willing to put in the effort to be trained to do the job is a lot more likely to actually protect the kids.
The teachers actually have skin in the game.
I’m only 36 but I’ve lived a good life, fuck sitting back and letting a mad man kill children!
Assuming I was there as a uniformed police officer, hell yes I would go after the shooter. As a private citizen I would have to say probably not. My philosophy about these situations is that as a private citizen if I can’t either see or hear that the shooter is within a couple doors from my location I won’t attempt to hunt the shooter. Attempting to play seek and destroy is one of the best ways to lose a gunfight as a civilian. No backup, no intel, no body armor. And that is not even considering the chance that I would be caught in a coverless kill zone (i.e. hallway). This is also about the only situation where the antis argument of confusing the police or another defender could be possible.
Really “no body armor” no get of ass? Perhaps a MRAP is needed also?
Sorry, soft body Armour common to LE issue is useless against 223/5.56. It’s meant to repel handgun ammo only. If I knew I was going against a center fire rifle, I’d take off the soft armour prior to facing the rifle. Not only will the vest be penetrated, but will spread the trauma across the entire area covered by the armour turning your insides to jelly. Now if you also had a ceramic plate, that would be a different story.
Absolutely not. I’m a law abiding citizen and I wouldn’t want to go to prison for violating the gun free school zone act.
If you have a CCW licence you are exempt from the Federal Statute. Local laws still apply.
Not everywhere.
the sad thing is….you know that would happen.
You are dropping your daughter off at school after a doctor’s appointment, and you hear gun fire from inside. You grab your trusty truck gun and run into harm’s way. You happen to find the bad guy, you shoot him cleanly on the school’s video system. You kick his gun away from him, move a secure distance away and sit down with your gun at the ready, in case he moves, until the cops get there. The cops arrive, handcuff you, and charge you with violating the GFZ.
…or, they just shoot you and claim there were two gunmen.
…or, the school cop shoots you in the back when you run past him in the parking lot.
Yup, I’m not afraid of the active shooter; I’m scared of being shot by responding police, SRO, or another sheep dog.
You forgot the part where they let the K9s chew on you for a while. That would suck a lot. I would be pissed off… and bleeding… a lot.
Are there any documented cases of this happening? I don’t know of any off hand. Are there any cases of a sheepdog getting shot by another sheepdog and/or responding police/security?
I have been shot at and I have shot back. But the one that scared me the most was being in a burning building. But I managed to override that fear and do what was needed.
As long as I don’t have to ride a helicopter to the site. No more choppers.
Yes I would. It doesn’t really matter if you will or won’t, even considering that you wouldn’t is not a road to go down mentally. You are excusing yourself before you fail. LOOK UP Jared Reston, he is a god among men. I am not him, he is truly amazing. In his video he says I can beat up Mike Tyson, I’d wake up next week sometime but I would go into it with a attitude and belief that I would win. He survived a horrible gunfight (and 3 other gunfights) with skills but also with the right attitude. You accept death is possible, you act accordingly, and you fight until the lights go out. You don’t get to not go in.
AMEN! True words here!
When do you graduate from B.U.D’s? America needs you men like you in Syria ASAP fighting Russian and Ukrainian mercenaries for reasons unknown so the rest of us stay hard at work binge watching Netflix.
If I was the SRO, hell yeah I’d go in. That’s what I would be there to do, not hide outside begging for backup and soiling my panties.
Is it reasonable to expect armed teachers to turn the tables on a school shooter? Most teachers can’t even teach, so how can we expect them to guard children.
Still, in any school, there might be one or two teachers with the stones to take down a gunman. And one or two should be enough.
I trust a teacher who is willing to train more than the typical cop who is assigned to be a SRO.
We’ve repeatedly seen (though not in every case) that teachers have sacrificed themselves to protect their students. This was true at Parkland.
Having served in a combat unit exposed day after day to absurd danger (Lam Son 719 etc.) my take is that we all did ridiculously dangerous things because we had built emotional bonds to the rest of the aircrew. It is that emotional bond that induces unhesitating action. I think (some) teachers would have this, but an SRO rarely would. The issue is worth study.
Hard to say until you’ve been in the situation. But if we allow teachers to be armed nobody expects them to go seek out a killer, but to guard over their students with their gu n drawn and at the ready. The same as any of us would do in the interest of saving our own hides.
Post-Columbine active shooter training dictates you run towards the gunfire, not wait for backup, no matter how badly you are outgunned or outnumbered. Period. Anyone who has taken active shooter training in the past decade has had this beaten into their heads.
Yes, but you need to be will to actual do it. Do you think a typical high school cop has the guts. Not saying that they all are that way, but if I was a Sheriff, where do you thing I’m going to assign my best personal?
Michael S is correct about the “new” doctrine.
Now show examples where it happened. Take your time.
How about the off duty officer at the Utah shopping mall where he ran towards the sound of the shots and eventually took out the shooter. Happens a lot more then you seem to think.
Dead ore glorious and the winner takes all
The question we are being asked is whether we would move from where we are to find and counterattack a killer. I think that’s not quite the right question.
The NRA, and now Trump, have called for arming teachers and staff at schools. A killer will – sooner or later – confront a teacher/staffer with his gun. Thereupon, she will have an easy decision: Kill or be killed. I would expect that the survival instinct would kick-in. If I don’t shoot then I will be shot; and so will many of the children in the room I’m in.
Do we believe/NOT-beleive that graduates of Education schools can figure out what to do when facing such a dilemma?
Don’t forget about school staff. I work in education and about half of my co-workers are POTG.
Exactly. A surprising number of faculty and staff are already armed and have a tacit agreement with their local administration so that nobody says nothin’ about the fact that they’re carrying. Further, despite appearances, not everybody in the education biz is a helpless snowflake. There are military veterans and experienced shooters in various positions, not necessarily teachers, on almost every campus.
Lock and load go in and terminate the shooter
I propose a far different question. Why would you send your children into that environment in the first place?
Since most government “school” teachers and administrators are socialists or worse, they are very unlikely to want to arm themselves at all. So that’s pretty much a non-starter. Armed guards, including those who are just picking up a paycheck, would not help much. One or two “guards” would be meaningless in any school half the size of the one in Florida.
The small risk of a mass shooting is not the real problem, of course. The problem is the marxist/feminazi program being indoctrinated into the children every day, pretty much everywhere in government “schools.”
The answer to a lot of problems with government ruined, tax funded “schools” is a total separation of education and state. No control, no tax funds. Parents are responsible for the health, education and safety of themselves and their children. Not government.
I too have long been an advocate of separation of school and state. Private schools could adjust to changing circumstances where as public school really can’t.
Public schools are controlled by local voters. The reason private schools are better is that the family’s that put the kids in the school are for more likely to actual care about the kids education. If ALL the kids went to private school, how would it be any different than public?
My kid goes to Public School. And guess what, I live where I live because of the schools. I care about my kids education and I live in a city where that is true for the majority of parents. The only “private” school around here are for people who are not secular.
“Public schools are controlled by” are controlled by State and Fed Dept of Education progtards.
If you think your local govt school board controls their school you are living in 1960.
To counter Binder, my kids got to Public schools because it’s what I can afford.
“Afford” being housing. My mortgage is a killer and I’m on the cusp of turning the corner and being able to move someplace different. Ironically, the youngest only has a few more years until he is out of HS.
Now if someone wants to send me some schooling credits for using a private school over public – I’m game.
That being said, I have to praise my school district as they are proactive, and have had/announced a couple of incidents where a knucklehead brought a weapon to school. Not exactly an active shooting, but Police did respond in quantity and with authority. Exactly what I hope for if the unthinkable happens there.
I grew up section 8 housing, and still my parents put school first. We moved out to Niles for Main East (One of the top schools in the country at the time), we could not afford Glenbrook district.
Fortunately, due to the industrial revolution, the information revolution, and 21st century access to almost unimaginable sums of information and instruction, education is no longer a scarce resource, and therefore should cost close to nothing except the time spent in pursuit of it. Sadly, lack of motivation to learn, political indoctrination requirements, tax funded child care, use of the diploma as a filtering tool in the market, etc., are so deeply entrenched that the suggestion of drastic change away from a mandatory school system causes people to begin hyperventilating. School violence is just another problem with it.
In a situation similar to Scot Peterson, I hope so, if I didn’t, I would spend the rest of my life loathing myself.
That is pretty much my philosophy of why I carry. I would have great regret if I _could_ have intervened and helped but I didn’t have the proper gear.
That’s also why I have a serious first aid kit in my car, which I have used several times.
Only have firefighting experience to draw from, but the old rule of thumb was “risk a little to save a little, risk a lot to save a lot”. A school full of kids qualifies as “a lot”.
I don’t have to say if I would. When I was a deputy I DID run full speed through doors with a dangerous situation on the other side. Scot Peterson is a cowardly thug who needs to lose his pension, at the very least.
Based on past experience, if I didn’t have somebody with me who took priority over strangers, I probably would. I’ve never been one to go away from criminal danger that was in what I consider my space, but I’ve never had to deal with hostile gun fire either, so I can’t say for sure.
Some will. Some won’t. I hope to never find out which kind I am.
If I’ve you’ve been hired to mow my lawn for me, I expect you to mow my lawn. If you don’t, I’d want my money back and I’ll go mow it myself. I may not be happy about it, but the lawn’s gonna get mowed.
If I’ve disarmed myself, and I hire you to carry guns for me and kill bad guys, I expect you to kill bad guys when they need it. If you don’t, I want my money back, and I’ll carry the guns myself. I may not be happy about it…
If I took an oath “to protect and serve” and protocols are in place that mandate I go in and was paid a handsome wage and pension and health benefits to do a job, yes I’d go in.
THE PIG THAT DIDN’T IS A COWARD AND HE SHOULD BE DRAGGED OUT BY HIS NECK, LYNCHED, AND FRIED LIKE THE BACON HE IS! DISGRACE! SHAME! COWARD! NAZI JACKBOOT!
Ah, there it is. The comment that makes me regret being associated here. I knew it’d be in this thread somewhere.
Where’s my “We’re not all crazy” t-shirt? Think I’m gonna need it again.
Hey Matt in Florida, if that is your real name, why don’t you look into Broward County Sheriff’s history as a law officer? You’d see that he was a Narc officer… in Florida… in the 80’s and 90’s, a time when drug trafficking was at it’s height in the US.
Of course, I’m not suggesting that Sheriff Israel aided traffickers for the right price or took some narcotic evidence from a scene and sold it to local dealers for some extra cash. Of course, I’m not suggesting that he dumped bodies in the ocean at that time to off witnesses.
But, you can find articles from 2016 of employees of Broward Sheriff’s Department Child Protective Services that that unit is “in shambles.” You can also see that Israel himself has been investigated 10 TIMES for excessive force.
So, it’s clear that Israel is a Deep State crooked cop who is still using his badge to enrich himself and given he had 5 years and dozens of calls about Cruz, it’s clear to me that Israel was waiting for Cruz to shoot up the school, told his deputies not to engage, and wanted higher body counts to get national media attention.
Because he’s Dirty. A dirty, dirty New York Jew of a Pig.
You sir are a shining example of humanity at its finest. Nah just kidding you’re a racist douchebag.
…
ooook.
QED
Sheriff Israel probably has his own little agenda.
https://reason.com/blog/2018/02/23/broward-county-sheriff-scott-israel-accu
Because he’s Dirty. A dirty, dirty New York Jew of a Pig.
Well, he is at least an opportunistic political machine piggy.
THE PIG THAT DIDN’T IS A COWARD AND HE SHOULD BE DRAGGED OUT BY HIS NECK, LYNCHED, AND FRIED LIKE THE BACON HE IS! DISGRACE! SHAME! COWARD! NAZI JACKBOOT!
Well, I think a lot of other people at least probably share the same sentiment.
It seems as though there was 4 others that should take the heat as well.
It is interesting that the cops are surrounding the Quisling’s house to protect his little rear end; so I am assuming that a lot of irate people would like to waste him.
My county denies me my right to bear arms and my skinny body wouldn’t be much of a human shield. So it doesn’t make much difference.
I respect your comment. It does pique my interest.
Are you saying you would not try something, anything?
Or because you are not armed, you would not go in?
David and Goliath comes to mind. So does the “Oh crap, someone challenging me…” idea.
I hope we never have to be put in that situation to find out if our thoughts vs reality are one in the same.
I wouldn’t willingly go into a gun fight without a gun barring extraordinary circumstances.
TX_Custodian just spray disinfectant in their eyes and crack em in the balls with your mop!
Stop exercising so much and eat more chicken fried steaks. Don’t skimp on the gravy.
🤠
I would not want to have the name Scot(t) Peterson.
Scott Peterson, Modesto California – December 2002 – cowardly kills his pregnant wife and baby.
Scot Peterson, Parkland Florida – February 2018 – cowardly hides to avoid entering a school shooting event to save the children.
Nobody knows how they would react in the same situation. I have, and would do it again. Law enforcement officers across the nation are trained for active shooter situations, but until the lead is flying, ya just don’t know. We are not trained to run blindly into such a situation, but to move in with as much concealment and cover as possible until you can take out the bad guy. I’m sure some of the school employees are former military who can handle the problem. Some of the employees are ccw permit holders who train often and can probably handle it. But until you’ve actually been in such situations, Who knows?
At least they’d have a fighting chance which, in the gun-rights versus anti-gun argument, is the fundamental gun-rights contention that gun-controllers cannot counter.
I would like to think so. If the scenario was – my daughter were in the high school and I was waiting to pick her up and knew, heard or see a shooting happening and did not see Leo’s going in – I would go in. Or grab that Leo hiding outside and go in. If they were unwilling to go then I would hope I have the fortitude to go solo.
My wife and I had this conversation the other day and she told me she would go down fighting – she’s a LEO. Since she doesn’t wear a uniform she is fully aware that she would most likely get shot by friendly fire but that would the price to pay if she were able to slow down or engage the shooter.
She was pissed, as well as I, when we read the news about the deputy not going in. Just dumbfounded.
Seems to me that Leo’s about to retire have no interest in risking anything. They need a desk job or to retire. This is an example of many many failures. We don’t need new laws, we need people willing to enforce the ones we have. Peterson deserves to be shamed for life. He was being paid to be at that school and he did nothing, being the only armed person there. As to the question at hand, I know anyone would go in, especially if they have children there. They would risk it and probably would end up in jail for bringing a firearm to a school.
I would if I were properly equipped and it was my job.
In the words of Winston Churchill, “Sometimes we must do more than our best; sometimes we must do what is necessary!”
Yes.
Sheriffs Dept, Police Dept, Fire Dept.and Ambulance Crews are paid and expected risk their lives and protect others.
Not stand out side
At most emergency scenes in this country the ONLY people not being paid are the Fire Dept.
Popo can either shoot it or arrest it. EMS will patch/transport. The FD does EVERYTHING else.
You honestly believe most LEO’s take the job because they truly take satisfaction in risking there lives for citizens who would not do the same for them? In any major city there are literally 100 to 1000 applicants for every LEO job available. It’s statistically unlikely that many people in a community are that self sacrificing. People want those jobs because they are one of the best paying and benefited jobs in modern America that doesn’t require expensive specialized education, and because youngish guys think it will get them laid more, or they have a chip on there shoulder from childhood. Lets stop kidding ourselves shall we?
Dying isn’t special. Getting killed while trying to save innocent children is a good, honorable death. Living after standing around while innocent children were murdered would be much worse. That of course, assumes that going in will get you killed. Really the choice is live/die a hero, or live in shame.
Spoken like a true Klingon. K’Pla!
And I mean that in the nicest way, one sheepdog to another. I invite you to Man Cave Brewery for a cup of, er, blood wine. I’m not joking.
If you’re a man, the answer is yes, you HAVE to run in. Men would do that. Women and soy boys don’t.
Women and soy boys don’t.
I think if my daughters were armed they would.
I know my mom would have gone in come hell or high water.
I’ve never been under fire, so I don’t really know what I would do. But part of the reason for having armed guards or a few teachers is that a shooter is to keep him off guard. He never knows which classrooms have a gun waiting.
You realize most of them want to die right? The notion that hes gonna be concerned about an armed teacher is fucking nonsense! He wants to die! Most of them attack a target they have a specific emotional attachment / vendetta against, that place being full of guns isn’t going to stop them. They have chosen to die on that day in that place.
Sorry, Mr. Frey-guy. You are ignorant of the facts of most of these spree killings.
Most of these shooters are tired of living, true, but they all have a carefully created and nurtured precious plan. And that precious plan has THEM in control of all life and death. Getting shot at or otherwise interrupted early in the sequence is NOT part of precious plan.
THAT is why GFZs are such an important part of all precious plans.
The majority of school shooters commit suicide or surrender at the first armed resistance. And it does upset their as the AZ school shooting this week. SRO runs to shooter, shooter sees SRO and kills himself. 45 seconds and on innocent killed. Given 6 minutes….
As for a sheepdog shot by friendlies, I’d like to hear one…. Actually wouldn’t like to… but I don’t think it’s happened…
The time to make the decision about going in, is BEFORE one takes the oath. Once one has taken the oath and there is a madman shooting kids, there is no decision left to be made.
It’s likely that a training problem existed. In other words, it is likely that the officer did not have confidence when the moment of truth arrived. There are ways of helping people obtain confidence before that moment. The Army and other armed forces know them. One is left to wonder if the problematic officer’s department does too.
Yes. I would not be able to live with myself if I didn’t.
It’s a rather grey area. If I was responding within the school, close to the shooter, then yes, ambushing or engaging the shooter sounds like the best course of action.
Outside the school, it would make sense to stay outside. You have thousands of students running outside screaming bloody murder through any exit available; that’s not order, that’s a stampede. And since the majority of these shooters are young enough to blend in as students, unless you can positively ID the shooter as they are firing a weapon within a crowd you don’t know who’s a threat and who isn’t. Combined with possibly having to shoot your weapon through a stampede of fleeing students, it was frankly wiser to stay outside.
No situation is clear cut, and all factors must be taken into account, because frankly we were not in this officers shoes. We don’t know what was going through his head when he was responding, what he saw coming to the scene of the crime, and with hindsight being 20/20 we can armchair this crap all we want.
My .02, he did the smarter decision of not barging in against a tide of fleeing high schoolers and dealing with the possibility of causing further casualties firing against a target that hadn’t been identified and that hid like a coward amongst his former peers after the deed was done.
22 years law enforcement, I’ve run in before I will run in again. There is only one word to describe Deputy Scot Peterson who watched and listened to the students being massacred that he knew and was supposed to be protecting: C O W A R D! ! ! !
A coward dies a thousand deaths, may each of his be miserable. He was equipped and trained, a good guy with a gun could have stopped this much sooner than it did. Yet one more link in the government incompetence that failed to prevent that young mad man from becoming a madman.
Thank you for running in. I know it doesn’t express enough.
Perhaps, someday, even in my advanced age, I can do what you have done. Semper vigilans, brother.
…….with a Dillon mini-gun!
I told my kids that if something like this happened at their school to escape if they can. And I told them I would come and get them. I made that decision after Columbine. Anyone can make that decision ahead of time. Then you don’t have to wonder what you’re going to do. The police can do whatever they like including shooting me in the back as I ingress the school. Inaction is total cowardice whether there is one or many cops on scene. Having said that I regret allowing my children to go to public school as we had home schooled and private schooled them previously. Nowadays I would never allow my kids any where near a public school. If you have kids there I am unable to express it any greater than this: TAKE THEM OUT OF SCHOOL AND EDUCATE THEM YOURSELF!!!!! It can be done by anyone who cares enough to make sure their kids get educated. Contact your local home school association for assistance.
AMEN!!! Very well said.
Thank you, MamaLiberty.
Your home-schoolin is intellectual child abuse brainwashing another generation of imbeciles to reject evil-lution and anthropogenic climate change and gay folks in favor of ID aka Creationism and CO2 aint a pollutant and Adam N Eve (not Steve) etc
There outta be a law against this sort of abuse, your kids should be taken away!
A nerve was touched. Wow.
EndChildAbuseViaHomeSchoolin is a sad, lonely bigot and does not know the first thing about home schoolers.
The real anti-science, anti-history, anti-human brainwashing is occurring in public schools on any topic you can name: The environment, natural rights, economics, marriage and family.
I am so tired of this. If you are living somewhere where your schools are so bad that you don’t want you kids going to the schools move. Or get involved. At my kids public school, PTA meetings are so full we can’t take the kids. The parents care about the kids and are willing to act where I live. Do they where you live?
I don’t like to waste my time with a failing communistic system that is run by liberal weenies. I’m sure it’ll be comforting to you to say to yourself, “Well, I got involved in the PTA and my kids got a better education than the school down the road but now they’re liberal weenies and/or they’re dead because you weren’t there to protect them.” Where is it written that the government should run the school system? We borrowed that concept from the czarist Russians because they wanted worker bees who would follow orders and fight in their wars. The root of the problem is the government doing things they shouldn’t be doing in the first place! I beg you to research it yourself instead of propping up a failed system.
Cordially, Texican
Any country with the resources organizes a public school system, and the political economies of these countries of course span the spectrum.
So what is it about the public schools in the US that make them a “failing communistic system” in your “mind”?
No. US gov’t school system is based on 19th century Prussian model
So what is it about the public schools in the US that make them a “failing communistic system” in your “mind”?
Just look at old textbooks, you will figure it out.
No. US gov’t school system is based on 19th century Prussian model
It would be better if they were on the 19th century USA model.
Not that I disagree with you, but it is beyond stupid that you should have to move to get your kid into a quality school. And home school just isn’t an option for a lot of people.
Yes, TX_Lawyer, you shouldn’t have to move to get a quality education for your children. You also shouldn’t allow others to teach them values that are contrary to your own. You can’t debrief them every day to counteract that influence. And, lastly, anyone can home school their children if, and that’s a big if, they desire and choose to do so. The great thing about home schooling is you get to set the school hrs. And you get to see them learn with your own eyes. No matter your circumstances you can do it. You are an Ameri-Can aren’t you? I think it’s the height of selfishness and defeatist attitude to say that you can’t. You might have to change some priorities. Maybe even cut back on work. Your children are worth it! And where else would they be safer than with you? I urge you to consider the possibility that it can be done and investigate the solution. Contact your local home school association and ask them how it CAN be done.
Regards, Texican
If I had a wife and kids, I’m pretty sure my hypothetical wife and I could work it out to where we could teach the hypothetical kids and work pretty easily. Just because I’m in a position to do so (with a hypothetical wife and kids), doesn’t mean everyone is.
A single parent who has to work full time doesn’t have a lot of options. And not all single parents are single parents because they made bad decisions. I guess they could quit work and depend on government assistance.
Personally I’ve never been a fan of mead. I think it’s disgusting.
That said, I’d rather spend an eternity in good company drinking mead from a fine drinking horn than spend the rest of my life living with the shame of having done nothing and having allowed some nutbar to murder a bunch of people. We’re all going to die. I feel that I might as well go out on a high note doing something worthwhile.
If the state or locality wants to prosecute me for breaking the GFZ rules after the incident (assuming I’m alive) then let them have at it. Good luck finding a jury that will convict someone under those circumstances. Not to mention that most DA’s have political ambitions that would be…. severely hampered by having such a prosecution on their record.
A side note: Personally I will not attack the deputy that did nothing. Some people just don’t have the psychological makeup for violence until there is literally no other choice. Some, when faced with the choice of violence or certain death still don’t possess the ability to do serious violence to others. Hell, some people literally can’t do anything in a basic martial arts class. It’s just not in them. This guy wasn’t right for the job he was given. He will live the rest of his life with the fact that he did nothing and allowed evil to prevail. Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that at some point down the line he takes his own life.
S9. Valhalla aside(I’m always worried I’d poke my eye out with that pointy horn cup) I agree, mostly with what you said.
Mostly. If this deputy was a rookie I would understand him finding out he lacks the ability to dish violence.
But dude was a vet with enough years service to retire. In disgrace. But to retire. He must have known this about himself for many years. He must have been in his share of hairy moments during his career.
He chose to continue being dishonest and wear the badge and gun. Knowing he didn’t have it in himself.
From what I had read about him days back I didn’t think he was a long term guy.
If he was then he was a moron. Then again so were his superiors. If what you say is true then there’s plenty of disciplinary action to go around.
A point I have not heard discussed so far: one our arguments is that armed police or armed teachers would not only be able to respond to a shooter but would serve as a deterrent. This kid in Florida must have known there was an armed deputy at the school and he went in anyway. The gun free zone as a shooting gallery argument seems less forceful after this. The kid could not have known the armed deputy would not resist him. I don’t know what to make of this.
Are you serious? One lonesome armed “guard” on a campus covering many acres, with 3,000 students in a large number of buildings. Really, he should have been a deterrent? The reason to eliminate the GFZ and leave everyone to carry if they choose is to make sure no potential attacker knows who all might be there to resist the attack. That would deter some, and not others maybe, but it would certainly be an improvement.
The goal is to stop the attack. Period.
Mama Liberty, please climb off the high horse of hyperbole and follow the argument. I am no fan of gun free zones and do not think schools should be so. I work in a hospital which is a damn gun free zone and even our security is armed only with tasers. I do not like it one bit since I cannot carry a weapon to defend myself.
Do you really think that the possibility of some of the school teachers being armed is a bigger deterrent than a known, trained deputy ? I have been to concealed carry class in Florida where shooting is not a requirement. Nevertheless the instructors took us to the range and first had us fire 3 rounds at a standard silhouette target at 7 yards. Only 1/3 of the rounds hit the target and only 1 /30 rounds hit center mass. One woman’s firearm jammed after each round and the instructors could not fix it. All of those people now have Florida concealed carry permits. If they are a representative group, then Florida teachers, some of whom are armed may not be such a deterrent.
I am not advocating for gun free zones and I do think teachers should be able to be armed if they want, but this Florida shooting raises a real question (but does not answer it) as to what it takes to create a deterrent to this type of lone wolf shooter.
Guess I wasn’t clear. My point is that one person can not possibly do anything to protect 3,000 students, regardless of his training or experience. There is zero deterrence factor in this case.
What other people do for their children is really none of my business, of course… unless it results in an attempt to disarm me – to prevent me from protecting my own life and property – or others if necessary.
I carry a gun every day, everywhere I go. I’m old, disabled and can’t run or fight hand to hand. I’m very aware of the restrictions that plague so many people in so many places. One really good reason I live where I do.
I’ve been present at multiple qualifications for one kind or another at the range for unspecialized citizen shooters. If that is a representative group of Floridians, then all the jokes about Florida are right.
I cannot speak for Florida. I am a Colorado Concealed Carrier. Shall Issue. My county sheriff likes me. 🙂
The CC is a license to learn. Like a Pilot’s License, which I also hold. I go to the range once or twice PER MONTH. I learn something every time.
Every time a CC goes to the range is one more time than a wannabe spree shooter. Due diligance. Semper Vigilans.
This teacher was one in a school with hundreds of students. When the time came they did what a teacher is suppose to do. KILL, not murder, but KILL to protect them. He were successful. But died in the attack. You will see my comments I made back then.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/01/robert-farago/gun-hero-of-the-day-asst-chemistry-professor-syed-hamid-hussain/
This story is one of my sources for a college paper on teaching the Second amendment in schools K thru 12.
It really depends on the killer’s end game, how committed they are, and what their motivation is. Gun free zone or not, the pol6ice will be called ans they will show up with a few minutes. Certainly less than 10 minutpolitics.
All of the shooters want to inflict massive casualties, generally, but victimology matters, too. Meaning, whom they kill and the site of the massacre may have special meaning to them. We see that in workplace and school shootings.
In that case, they’ll still shoot up the school they regard as the source of their problems, regardless of the number of guards. True, other places would provide a softer target than a school with 100 armed guards, but no other school is their school. So it would still go down there.
That’s why arming teachers/staff is preferable to armes guards. Armed guards are known and few, maybe just one coward in uniform. Armed teachers could be many more, but you never know. That’s a better category of good guy with a gun for a school setting.
Other killers are motivated by the kill itself, with no personal connection to the specific individuals killed. They aren’t obsessed with that specific location. In those cases, armed guards, even just one, may be sufficient as a deterrent because they are at least something to counter the attack and cut it short, which
“Certainly less than 10 minutpolitics.” Either you or your phone is drunk. I’m going with your phone.
He could have known. He could have had a plan to avoid him. He did know the guy and the school.
Agree with all points above. If he did know there was only one guard he could approach from the other side of campus. If he didnt know there was a guard he was just stupid. If he was suicidal it wouldn’t matter. We need to be careful to oversimplify the deterrent effect of any measure. It is a tradgedy that the brave man (the PE teacher) was unarmed.
I personally would be so angry at a school shooter that I would be unable to be afraid. Big talk from a physician who will never be in the position of that deputy but I have two boys in grade school and if their school is attacked I will kill all of the shooters if given half a chance. If more people felt THAT way maybe this would slow down.
I think most of think like Randall Margraves, the father of one of the gymnasts who was molested by the pedo doctor, who attacked the doctor in a room full of men with guns there to stop that sort of thing. At a certain point, we will lose our shit and attack these scum bags.
Armed to the teeth? Check…body armor? Check…police powers? Check…qualified immunity? Check…and IF I was armed I’d run in. He!! I defended people on the “EL” in Chicago totally unarmed. A coward dies a thousand deaths. White feather anyone?!?
I’d like to think I would. BUT…let’s face it, it’s a sudden, LOUD, scary=@ass thing to hear a firearm in an enclosed environment. Not being there, I hope I would have at least moved SOMEWHERE to end the threat. But I can’t rightly say because it’s never happened to me.
I HAVE responded to an emergency situation (aircraft maintenance) where my training prevailed and it was a happy ending. That’s as far as I can state. There were no firearms or violence involved.
Do I fault the deputy? Absolutely. If nothing else, for doing nothing BEFORE the knucklehead acted. He should have his pension stripped. He obviously was one of those just milking the system.
I believe that teachers should be allowed to carry firearms if they feel confident they can make a difference.
In the old days, we had a term for what this scumbag did. It was called “cowardice in the face of the enemy”… I think in this case, the punishment should be the same as it was then.
As for would I “rush in”? Probably not. I’d take the time to grab my ANTI-ANTIFA kit from under my passenger’s seat and throw on the plate carrier with the big ‘ole “SECURITY CONTRACTOR” badge on the back. The MP5 would stay bagged until I know exactly what’s going on. (and yes, I ride around with a condition 1 MP5K “pistol” under my passenger seat.)
To be fair the folks who were guilty of cowardice in such cases were not in this guy’s situation. They had NCO’s and Officers telling them what to do, putting a proverbial (and sometimes probably actual) boot up their ass and they STILL didn’t do what they were supposed to. Usually multiple times before they were charged with cowardice.
It’s entirely possible that with another person telling this guy “Comon’ we gotta go get this motherfucker” that he’d have jumped up and done the right thing. Really, there’s no way to know but having someone say shit like that to you is a good motivator to get up and go do work.
This guy had one job. His cowardice caused him to not do it. Ask me how much I care about the details.
From what I had read days back (and it may be my mistake) I thought the guy was relatively new to being an officer. Based on what I’ve seen today, I’d agree the details don’t matter because it’s not like he was a rookie put in a situation over his head.
Nope, he’d been a SRO for at least a couple years, since he didn’t respond to Child Services when they specifically asked him about this kid 2 years before.
This situation is so much worse than some of the others, specifically Vegas, because it required active incompetence and pure laziness for YEARS to get to the point this kid went off. Its not so much that the school didn’t know, because they did, but their level of actual power was limited to booting him and filing reports with the police, which they did. The sheriff, who multiple deputies did little the day of, did no more the 29 times they responded to the kids house. HE CALLED THEM HIMSELF the month before and said that he was feeling “crazy”, the 911 call was released today.
There are very good reasons the Army uses buddy team ALWAYS
I don’t think anyone can say for sure how they would respond in that situation but I like to think I would have gone in. I may not have the formal training of a cop but I don’t know how well I could live with myself if I knew what was happening and did nothing when I had the chance.
Gunfire in a school, church, office building, grocery store, hell yes. Bar or back alley, nope.
I think many teachers could make a big difference in school shootings. The coach that was killed last week was a ccw holder. If he had more than his body to shield kids with he could have made a real difference.
It’s what I trained to do. So, yes.
Hard question. Hard to know for certain my actions.
But several years ago I was one of two firefighters first on the scene of a massive explosion. There was very real fear of a secondary explosion. But we went in in order to help evacuate the casualties. When the FBI showed up hours later they declined to enter because of the ongoing danger – and they were right to do so.
Going in was a defining moment for me. I’d always believed I’d be willing to risk my life to save others – and that day I demonstrated I could. If you live a sacrificial life-style, if you value serving others, if you don’t walk around thinking “whatever happens, I go home at the end of the day”, then yeah, you should be able to lay your life on the line for people you’ve never met.
By this we know what love is: Jesus laid down His life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. 1st John 3:16
Amen.
With the amount of school shootings we have had, has anyone gone in and tried to stop them other than police (when they actually did, no thanks to this last dip). Surely someone who was CCing has been nearby and done nothing.
One more thing I meant to post regarding this SRO. Most of the SROs I know could not cut it on the street or wanted to get away from the street because they felt they couldn’t handle it anymore or want an easy gig to preclude their retirement. You think they will actually make a run towards the gunfire?
First, let me preface my response with:
We are in a Culture War and there will only be one victorious side
As in all wars, there will be casualties on both sides. There is no convincing the other side they are wrong and there is no winning by being amicable. You win or you lose, and my goal is not die for my side, but let the enemy die for theirs.
————————
All lives are not equal
If my child were in that school, my mission would be to save my child. Whether that’s by means of reaching and extracting my child or directly engaging and neutralizing the shooter if the opportunity presented itself. If, in my efforts to save my offspring, I’ll inadvertently save a number of progressive non-binary tide pod eating kids that will spend their adult lives trying to abolish our constitution and virtues with their progressive BS, well that’s an unfortunate reality. However, I suppose the odds are I’ll be saving some future patriots as well that will grow up and perhaps return the favor some day. My idealistic goal is to save people worth saving, people that share my values and who will grow up useful in society and bring benefit to the world in some positive way. The rest, frankly, can jump off a cliff. One benefit I can immediately think of is we’d have no more traffic.
Reap what you sow
If I had no children and the children of relatives or close friends were in danger (and they shared my values), I would attempt to help them in any way that I could. After all families are a village, meaning if I died trying to save a relatives’ child, I would rest assured my relatives would take care of mine. But that doesn’t pan out with strangers. Most are likely not to remember you after a few weeks.
So, I’m a proponent of you reap what you sow. Meaning, you deserve the full consequences of your actions (or inactions) in life. So, if knew a bunch of anti-gunner offspring were in a school that is operating with the full direction of the Left’s legislation, then I’ll happily let their principles and their actions decide their fate.
Sheeple will always be victims and for the most part, they simply can’t help themselves because of ignorance, low intelligence, or both. There is no reward for being a sheep dog and you’re more likely to be shamed in today’s society than praised. So why put yourself through that?
So no, I won’t throw away my one life for random strangers. I would rather live and be one more productive member of “my village” and let Darwin sort out the rest.
Absofuckinglutely. When it comes to children getting shot my life doesn’t matter. I served for over 12 years and took the oath 3 times. I believe that oath never ends. The football coach was the real hero, he used his body to protect children knowing fully well he was going to die. This is the type who needs to be armed.
Armed and on scene? Yes but I would use the tactical training I learned in the military and not just rush in.
No one is asking you to be stupid about it, but I don’t think it was prudence that was holding that deputy back.
RUN in nope
enter the RIGHT way yes!
Look at what is going on here
on your side
you KNOW where they are
You know this school…every corner, every nook, every spot to gain the advantage! THIS IS YOUR HOME!
you are trained—in this cops case?
you are calm…knowing you have the upper hand
the shooters disadvantages!
They don’t know you are coming
don’t know from where you are coming…they have to search 360 at all times!
don’t know this school–that is a maybe?
they are not likely trained at all–except ‘call of duty’ video games! LOL
they are a raging nutter that is crazier!
you the cop or guard have the advantage
you don’t have to kill the guy
just shoot his way once and he will go to ground is the likely outcome
a shot now and then will keep him pinned until help comes!
Then its Pinata time! with bullets!
the cop that was there was no cop—-that was a chicken in a cop suit!
weak yellow bellied pussy!
This kid went to the school for 4 years, so literally all of the advantages you give the police, he had, plus violence of action. Some massive percentage of police never draw their weapon, much less fire it on duty, so I’d generally not rely on their super tactical training.
I’d generally not rely on most teachers with a pure CCDW either, most of those are jokes, but the one thing they’d probably be is in the line of fire, so its much different if its kill or be killed, vs run into the crowd of kids who are being shot by a kid and kill the kid. This SRO failed, the 3 deputies that showed and still didn’t do anything, failed. The cops from the next town over, arrived and went in, bypassing the deputies, but it was far too late.
I think most of us probably would in this specific circumstance (school/children) – if we were him and that was our job. (Hell, maybe even if not). But i guess you never know for sure. I’d probably be scared shitless (or maybe not until afterwards who knows?) but standing by idly while children are being killed that you are supposed to be protecting is a fate worse than death.
As members of a shared culture (society), we have the ethical obligation to act if we can further a morally sound goal, or diminish a morally reprehensible action. The safety and lives of children are almost uniformly placed at the top of ethical tenets worldwide. Choosing yourself over children is the epitome of dishonor. Is it understandable, in this situation, why he chose/felt forced to wait? I can empathize with the fears and dangers that may have forced him to not only wait, but to hide (he left the building). But, I still don’t find it right. His profession, armament, and location are almost negligible compared to his requirement as a human being to safeguard children.
I would have gone in.
Best advice I ever received: Death before Dishonor. The trials will forge your principles.
Worst advice I ever received: Death before Dishonor. The weight can crush your dreams, relationships and life.
“Death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain.”
May we all find peace.
Makes sense if you are a parent trying to save their own child. Not so much if that’s not the case. So eager to die… and for what? 15 minutes of brief fame (if that) that will ultimately not be remembered after a few generations.
You only get one life and more people have died than have ever lived. Yet you don’t know any of them and never will regardless of their contributions or misdeeds they had in life.
The illusion most of our species seems to promote is that every person is a unique gift to the universe. Hint, the universe doesn’t have feelings and no one cares. The reality is we’re a bunch of self-important walking apes on this rock and think ourselves masters of the universe. It’s rather pretentious and boring. We’ve modeled our society after ants and spend our days selling entertainment to each other until we die. And most people don’t ever get to come to that realization and enjoy life instead of just being a slave to their jobs or money.
So, yeah, you go on living the dream and thinking your actions matter to everyone. Your actions only matter to and affect those closest to you and no one else cares.
I think our difference here is that for me, the conflict of what to do is internal and the actions I take form the value of my self identity. Your opinion seems to be that actions only matter externally to those close to us and not at all to our self worth. You may very well be right; I just wanted to point out a distinction I see.
I’m not eager to die, but I am eager to be the best me. There’s been no mention of fame or glory. Honor is intrinsic and the rest is external conjecture. I have the belief that only I can can determine what’s the best me, and don’t rely on the opinions of others to form my desired self image.
I do agree that many are caught up in the rat race, but that doesn’t mean that material wealth are the only shared values in our society.
Lastly, if no one else cares what we do, why are we all talking about what one man did or didn’t do? It doesn’t matter, right?
Good conversation.
I probably came off pretty bleak I realize. There are good folks still out there but they are usually a humble bunch and not keen on the media spotlight. So they are often overshadowed by the very loud and televised dumb people out there. Probably because dumb is more entertaining? Perhaps.
Kudos to wanting to be the best you, even if that means dying young I suppose.
I think the virtue of self sacrifice is admirable but in the larger scheme of things, it’s an evolved virtue for the preservation of the next generation.
Yes. Next question.
Hell yes. I live right next to a school and if I heard gunfire erupting from it, I’d arm myself and head on in. Despite how much I hate indoctrination centers, the only way to convince others of the importance of guns, is to show them that Good Guys with Guns exist!
That said, I’m not sure what I’d do when the police arrive. Most police are good, honest, trustworthy people, but I seem to encounter a lot of morons with badges where I live.
I’ve been shot at and rocketed and despite training and repeated exposure I was scared shitless, but less so over time. I myself have frozen up (after having seen somebody get hit) and seen a lot of others freeze up. You never know how you’re going to react, but the pattern I saw was the tough talking guys didn’t always handle it the best (before, during and after). In general, I thought women handle it best, especially nurses. After getting hit by an IED and having been partially eviscerated, a nurse kept helping the wounded until blacking out. I don’t think most people have that kind of grit right out of the gate. I didn’t and I’ve probably since lost it. I can’t judge this guy, he’s probably just reacted like most ordinary people do. And he won’t have the chance to go through it again and again to the point where he’s over it. I feel for the guy.
Thank you Mr Startles… God Bless you Sir…
That was a very good comment.
I have little compassion for the agent of government who failed in his responsibility. I do have compassion for the man who will forever have to live with his choices that day. As another person commented farther upstream, I would be surprised if he didn’t off himself one day.
I cannot say what I would do in a moment like that, but I certainly hope that I would have the courage to do such. Armed or not. I am thankful for those who did and those who have yet to do such.
I would definitely like to think so. I pray I never need to find out.
“…The question is: could you do it? Could you run towards gunfire to save innocent life?”
No.
But only because I have reached a point physically where running is not an option even to save my own life.
Which is why I carry, because I can’t outrun anything faster than blind three-legged squirrels. And they could probably overtake me too.
To be clear….. what I would or wouldn’t’ do, could or couldn’t do only effects me. If you can run then go for it. If you just want to hide until you get a shot or it’s over that’s cool too.
However….. none of that rambling bit above should be construed into thinking I wouldn’t take the shot if I had it. If I can delay/stop the shooter then by golly I am going to delay or stop the threat.
I think this was a training issue. Proper training builds confidence. I believe a program like FASTER would have helped.
IMHO… We should all search our hearts and minds well before ever being confronted by evil like this… We need to be as ahead of the curve as possible…
I can honestly say that I will go ALL in without hesitation…
I’ve seen more than once that I’m under an incredible amount of protection from my Father… They can kill me but I will not dye, I’ve already done that…
I pray that my Lord calm may heart, steady my aim and allow me to open that gates of Sheol then send them through…
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
John 15:13
Rabboni is my benchmark… I hope He’s yours to… Carry on TTAG…
Yes, I would go in; if it wasn’t a legally enforcible “Gun Free Zone”.
Unfortunately, it was, so I wouldn’t have been able to go in as a lowly gun permit holder.
There is no doubt in my mind that I would go in immediately, although I would not just run at full speed like a chicken with its head cut-off. I would move at a brisk pace with utmost caution, constantly scanning for available cover or concealment.
Whether or not I would go in is irrelevant. This School Resource Officer (a three word name for Police Officer) is employed in a job that REQUIRES him to engage baddies….something which he declined to do. In other words, he declined to do his job and people died as a result.
I would to protect/save my family. Im sure i would not even think about it. It would be reflex action. I am not paid to go in harms way. The cop was. Old fat cops waiting out retirement should not be protecting our children. If the police depts had half a brain and Im sure some do, they would rotate cops daily thru those SRO positions.
Absolutely.
Apparently, there were four deputies waiting outside the school, not just Peterson:
https://www.dailywire.com/news/27523/breaking-cnn-reports-four-broward-county-deputies-ben-shapiro
Unforgivable.
I don’t understand how anyone in that situation could live with themselves if they didn’t at least try.
You underestimate the human capacity to not give a crap about others not in their familial or inner circle.
Those deputies caught in the media spotlight would do well to change their names and move lest they be targets for retribution. That is assuming people will take time away from their political agendas and impotent social justice.
It is hard to come up with an answer when one does not know what procedures are in place. What dept. policy was taught to the officer before hand will determine what actions will take place during the unfortunate event. Should one rush in and take out the criminal or observe and report to the backup, who and where they are, so that backup does not shoot the wrong people.
if one of my kids is in the school, definitely yes. if not, i don’t know. hopefully i never have to find out.
@John in TX (Was CT). Yes.. Coral Springs Police “were stunned and upset” that three other BCSO officers were behind their cars with guns drawn but had not entered the building. Two of the BCSO “deputies” (I use that term loosely) entered with them. WTF!!!!!!! Sorry asses, is not that what we pay them to do? You can’t go in to try to SAVE OUR CHILDREN?? Sheriff needs to go and any pussies on the force!! If you can’t do what you signed up for, GTFO!!!! Damnnnn! I hate pussy boys with guns on their hip that think they’re “Billy Bad Ass”! 22 years in the Army and I never saw this from my guys!
And now they want to blame the gun? Nothing new there for LIBS/POSDs!! They just won’t face reality that EVIL exists in our world because it doesn’t fit their agenda, which is to disarm us all and exert their “Authority” over all of us! Gotta stop them now!!
Totally agree. If we don’t stop this anti gun crap, does anybody really believe the demonrats are going to go in and talk the POS into just dropping his gun? Ain’t gonna happen. It’s only the good guys/gals with a gun who will stop the bad guys/gals with the gun.
And yes I would go in! I have Grandchildren in our local schools! And I’m a damn good shot! Don’t move as fast as I used to but I wouldn’t want to charge in anyway, just get to the MF and kill him! Damn… three posts in a row, sorry everyone. Just SUPER PISSED!
Well darn, my 1st comment is awaiting moderation. Sorry if I offended anyone, but judging from comments I’ve seen her thru the years it shouldn’t be FLAME DELETED!
Well they moderated the hell out of my original comment. Oh well… except for calling some Pu…. what they are, I guess I made my point.
This cop is being heavily criticized, however we do not know what he knew or was being told.
Did he know where the gunfire was coming from? Was he given “orders ” to report where the shooter, or shooters are before engaging. If he had gone into the wrong building or just ran in blindly we would have been critisizing him for different actions. I would want to know his side before judging him.
Nowadays we need someone, or something (the gun) to blame
In Rhode Island, one can carry in schools with a gun permit although the progressive left every year tries to change this through legislation.
Yes, as a sworn officer I would go in. Yes, as a citizen I would go in.
People react differently to stress. I get really analytical and supress emotions. My ex got hysterical over little things like thinking she’d left her purse at the mall. No way I’d want her around a gun.
My biggest worry would be mistaking innocent noise for gunshots. I would like to think that I’d move to intervene with whatever weapon I could find and try to get the shooter from behind or when reloading. I’d go in assuming I could stop him but honestly id also be thinking what a great story I’d have for St Peter if I didn’t make it. We all are going to die. I’d rather die acting than with regrets.
30-40 years ago I could somewhat trust Officer Friendly not to be a trigger happy nitwit that could dicedn friend from foe.
Nowadays having anything in your hand (let alone a gun) is an automatic “shoot me” response from the PD. Got forbid you are holding a weapon.
Rushing into any mass shooting scenario where the police are in the area is very risky gamble and you are likely to get dead by cop.
Of course I would. It’s f*cking kids. What kind of coward stands by while kids are being hurt and/or killed? Well, this deputy, obviously.
The problem is police hear all the shooting, and think about their own wives and their own children which may soon be widows or orphans, or single parents with children, etc.
The solution to this is to empower the teachers. They are locked down in their own classrooms. They have no where to go. So really their choice is to cower In the corner and wait for death, or grab a firearm and flip some tables over.
And this a better solution to me than being forced to rely on someone else, who may or may not even come in.
It seems I’m the only one who is planning to become a teacher. I ccw already. Anyone who attacks my students will get as many holes put into them as necessary to stop the threat. If I have to go to Ohio for FASTER training on my own, I will.
I have went towards gunfire (and other violent situations not of my making) before so I know that I am capable.
I would for some kids or other innocents being slaughtered; without second thought. Of that, I have no doubts. For adults… I’m not completely sure. I guess it would depend upon my read of the situation at the moment.
When I was younger, I probably would have rushed in on any situation. Now that I’m older, and perhaps more cynical(?), the answer is victim and situation dependent.
Would I go in? HAHAHA I’m the best there is, the best that was, and the best that will ever be. I’ve been shot in the leg, had one go through my ankle, blowed on my ass from a hit to the chest, and shrapnel scars on my face. You think some puss with a gun is going to stop me from saving kids?
If my own kids were in the school there would be no way you could keep me out.
Otherwise I just don’t know. I guess I’ll find out if it ever happens.
This is the question, is it not? What would you do when it might matter?
That’s terrifying, six different ways. Better to make sure what you can do never matters, and shut down anyone else who might make a different choice.
At botton the “anti” positions are just symptoms of people desperate to avoid owning their own power. They can’t stand to live with the choice. To try or not. Having tried, to succeed, or not. To judge what’s worth saving, or risking. To choose to embrace a terrible power, to shape the world. Now, you own what you do with it … and don’t.
What would you do, given that you can? That’s so terrible to some people they cripple themselves, just to be free of the choice and consequences. And they insist you be crippled, too, so they can deny that they chose to be helpless.
No one ever knows how they will react to any given situation until they encounter it.
However I would hope that I would have the courage to pause only long enough to ask my Creator for courage, guidance and protection before engaging the threat. Every second the attacker spends responding to me means one less second he has to kill innocents; more time for the intended victims to escape and for LE to arrive.
Murphy’s Rules of Combat: anything you do can get you killed including doing nothing. So do something.
The quote below sums up my view on this subject.
“I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger.” – Mencius
Anyone notice this only happens in white majority schools and not black majority schools. Are we going about this the wrong way ???? Whats really the issue #
Unless my family were directly in harm’s way, I would not go in. I carry to defend my friends/family and if the shooter is between me and the exit.
I am a retired LEO, I would have gone in, but if he stayed at the door is he legally culpable for anything?, Nope! SCOTUS has ruled that Police work is a job, not the military, Police have no duty to protect you! The protect and serve nonsense is just that, B.S. Police have NO DUTY to endanger their life to protect you. police are there to investigate crime and attempt to keep order.
That being said, I still would have gone in, even knowing that the same people you are saving are the same ones wanting to take away your constitutional rights.
let the hate speech begin!
Jesus – thank friggin God at least he gets to keep his pension – that is the best part. What a joke.
Hypothetically, If I was there as a deputy? Starting from my vehicle? You know… the vehicle with stuff in the trunk that probably includes an AR15, a shotgun, and body armor? …and I get to have 3 of my buddies with me, equipped similarly from their vehicles? I would hope that I would begin to not feel so bad about those odds. Would I be scared? Yup. Hearing the shots, and the screams of kids, would probably convince me without much hesitation, if any at all.
I’m not a sheriff, nor soldier, but regardless there is something inside a man that protects. Ahem… to tell a story… ummm… There may or may not have been a time in years past, where a young girl was receiving the most brutal beating (from her boyfriend?), that was stopped. Nobody knew if the man had a weapon, but he got stopped because it was believed that she was about to die at his hand. There was no hesitation in deciding to intervene and stop the guy.
The Sheriff is just now ordering AR-15s for his force.
What a dope.
Florida is overrun with drug traffic and those boy aren’t just armed, they’re very well armed and with fully-automatic rifles.
He must be a liberal, himself.
The parkland shooter was a cartel member? I read he was a white supremacist who purchased his rifle at a store, hugh weird. Every state is full of drug traffic btw if you have a cvs near by then phizer, glaxo-wellco, and the DEA make sure you live in a High intensity drug trafficking corridor.
ex-Marine here.
We run towards gunfire, not away from it.
I simply couldn’t live with myself if I’d been within a click of the place, heard gunfire and sat it out.
My only real concern would be getting shot by the cops’ snipers after it was all over.
Hey David do we have any documented cases where the sheepdog gets shot by another sheepdog, or police/security, or anyone else of the like of “good guy?” I have not heard of any cases in this context, but I’d like to know more about it.
Would you go in,… too a gym and get a half hour of cardio, three days a week. We all answer that question every day, most of us with a resounding no! There’s only one life 99% of us are ever even gonna have a chance of saving. Buy less ammo and more sneakers.
As ex law enforcement I would hope that I would have done what I could have to distract, disable, kill, do whatever was necessary to help. I cannot fathom in my heart what was going through these individuals that stood by and literally did nothing.
I would not want to be anyone of them as I don’t believe you would ever be the same again or be able to look yourself in a mirror without thinking what a coward you were at a time many could have been helped. I would have rather fought and gone down then live with that cloud the rest of my life.
I spent 10 years as a solider. I would have gone in.
And I would have gone in even as a teenager- it’s not age, it’s your attitude, and it’s not if you’re armed or not- you can see this in the behaviors of the teenagers who died protecting their classmates.
The right thing, the honorable thing, is obvious to anyone.
The dis-honorable, cowardly behaviors are clearly shown by the pathetic Deputies who stayed behind their cars.
In a Word Yes
I hope that if I found myself in this sort of situation that I would realize in time what was happening and then act to help. I believe that I would but since I haven’t been in a life and death gun fight before, I can’t say for sure. I hope that I never find myself in a situation where I need to find out, but I carry every day and have some medical supplies with me or in my car in case I do. That’s all I can say.
If I were ever in a position to do so, yes. I wouldn’t want to, because I rather like living, but sometimes needs must if you’re one of the few or perhaps the only one that stands between the looming darkness and the flickering light.
There may come a time when you need to be that hard line behind which nothing dies and before which nothing lives, to be like the tree planted beside the moving waters and shall not be moved lest death or unconsciousness take you.
as a non protective service person that is a personnel choice! When your paycheck derives from the protect and serve statement, either man up or quit your job! its pretty pathetic when you have law officers so afraid that they wait for back up while the killer is locking onto his prey. being a non LEO type entering a school with a deadly weapon could get you killed and or mistaken for the perpetrator! so no I would not go, make it legal for us to carry at school, then in a heartbeat I would make the attempt, might have too clean my shorts, or bleed all over everything, but I could face my self in the morning and or meet my maker with I tried!
It depends on whether my wife and kids are with me or not. If they were, I’m probably not leaving their sides because I’m making sure they’re safe. If they are safe, then I’m going in. Not because I have a hero mentality or any other BS people say. The truth is that I believe in fighting terrorism when you’re confronted with it. I’ve read some of the comments and some are saying “that’s macho Marine BS”. Well, I am a former Marine, so maybe it is macho or maybe I just value freedom more than some others. Either way, I think if you can stop a terrorist by risking you life, then you should. If we all coward in a corner, Hitler would have conquered the globe. Man up or woman up and fight. Otherwise, terrorism wins.
Comments are closed.