Kathy Hochul gun assault weapon rifle
Photo: Office of the Governor of New York via AP

Ultimately, the research suggests that neither pro-gun advocates who champion “good guys with guns” as the solution to crime nor anti-gun liberals who fear more concealed carriers will whip out their Glocks really have an accurate picture of how legal guns create harm.

“The public has been too focused on the simple narrative of the good guy with a gun,” said [Stanford Law School professor John] Donohue. “One side likes that and the other thinks, ‘Do we really want someone pulling out a gun?’ They’re focused narrowly on the guy with the permit. What I’m saying with this paper is, let’s broaden the aperture a bit. That’s just a small part of the consequence of these laws.”

Looked at a certain way, Donahue’s findings might offer some hope for New Yorkers and Californians who are now worried for their safety. The Supreme Court may be able to undo historically long-standing gun restrictions like New York’s “may issue” concealed carry laws. But far-right justices can’t induce a cultural sea change around guns in places where the idea of carrying a concealed weapon remains very fringe—and that, in turn, might mean these states won’t see a flood of new weapons entering into circulation.

Even among New Yorkers who favor the ruling, there is strong doubt that the court has just opened the floodgates of public carry, as one Queens shooting range owner told the local NPR affiliate. Indeed, 72 percent of New York gun owners told pollsters that they actually hoped the Supreme Court would uphold the “may issue” law. Hopefully, the state is not about to become Texas on the Hudson.

— Alex Yablon in Why SCOTUS’s Radical Gun Ruling Will Lead To More Violence

RELATED ARTICLESMORE FROM AUTHOR

71 COMMENTS

  1. To visit NY and CA I would have to join the unarmed, defenseless victim pool. No can do.

    • Debbie,

      Or do what many do, and ignore their unconstitutional horses***. I carried in CA for years, sometimes with a permit, more often without (LOOOONNNNGGGG story). I don’t sacrifice my ability to protect myself just because some Leftist/fascist idiot in CA had a brain fart, and got his/her/xer fellow Leftist/fascist idiots to pass a law. OTOH, getting a firearm onto an airplane (possible, but a giant pain in the arse) is more trouble than it’s worth. Nothing in either NY or CA (or NJ, or HI, or MD, or RI, or VT, or (insert name of blue state hellhole of your choice)) worth me sacrificing my ability to protect myself.

      • Thank God you never had to use an illegal weapon to defend yourself. You might end up in jail.

        “Manhattan bodega worker, 51, knifes gangster, 37, to death after he jumped counter and attacked him over cost of a bag of chips:”

        “Locals demand employee is released from Rikers Island as a GoFundMe to help him raises $20,000 in 12 hours”

        https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10988015/Shocking-moment-Manhattan-bodega-worker-stabs-customer-death-man-confronted-him.html

        • Glad there is a outcry to have him released, after all bail reform should apply to everyone (including taxpayers) and it’s not like we haven’t let people go free prior to trial for drive bys on multiple occasions involving death.

        • Chris T,

          Thank God I never had to use my carry weapon “for real” for a LOT of reasons – including that no sane person is eager to take another person’s life – even if that person is a scumbag criminal. But, yes, I was always aware that, IF it happened, whether I had my permit or not, I was going to jail. What’s the saying?? “I’d rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6.” Yeah, that. If you intend to ignore an unconstitutional law, you accept the inherent risk that you may be prosecuted for that. Ya pays yer money, and ya takes yer chances.

        • Per Tucker last night gofundme shut down the account. I don’t know if that means they also stole the money, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

        • One incident does NOT prove any point at all. All a matter of bloody luck. The fact that it was over the price of a packet of chips suggest that the perp was not in full control of his facilities. It does not even say whether or not the perp was armed with ANYTHING.
          In law all reaction to violence in self defence must be proportional and if the perp was NOT armed then to knife him is unlawful. Especially as the implication is that the ”employee’ had a knife at the ready for that very purpose. You may not like it but bthat’s the law.
          Bynbthe way please explain exacly WHAT the use of a KNIFE has to do with any aspect of gun control??

        • You really can’t help but expose your stupidity can you All Hail? Younger stronger criminal intent on causing bodily injury to an older weaker victim. The victim prevailed in this scenario and had every right to knife that loser to death. Playing stupid games and all. And as far as having an aspect to gun control, if that bitch whorchul had her way this victim wouldn’t have been able to protect himself with a knife and or a gun. You can see it’s all about control of the citizens. You being a subject should understand this.

    • 13 states and the District of Columbia I will not visit until they follow the Constitution of 1789 & its amendments.

  2. MEH…didn’t happen in Chiraq(or ILLannoy). No-rivers of blood come from gangbangers & scum. In a lot of way’s Chiraq resembles NYC. And CCL holder’s are often positively reported on obviously biased Leftard media. More stupid from NY…

    • They even say that if the clerk has a shottie and a club for his own protection. You get a 140# clerk and a big 200#+ comes in to rob them by strong arm, the clerk should have the right to use the shottie or the club on the attacker. The point here is it is not only a shoplifting offense, it very well could be a violent attack.
      Arresting the clerk(right away) is just wrong.

  3. This article is pure copium. Given the state of chaos in major New York state cities, law-abiding citizens will start carrying.

    They’ve lost the legal battle. This article just salve for the wounds.

    • agree. they keep saying state. out side nyc will tool up thoroughly and the city proper will gain many.

      • And within that inner city many will be legions still vocally decrying shall issue as they drive to and from ‘getting theirs’.

  5. …………..so NPR is still pretending that a flood of new guns has been going on here since before the pandemic………….ok cool story bro waiting on my judge letter for my first revolver.

  6. The Supreme Court can rule but has no authority to enforce the rules especially when the majority of Americans disagree with the current radical Court appointed by Trump.

    Just as the new abortion ban by the court will be ignored, which raped a 50 year old personal freedom right of women which was smashed and raped by the court so too will New York simply ignore the Supreme Court’s ruling. The current finger in the face of the court by New York was to simply ban the carrying of a concealed weapon even with a permit which now makes it impossible to do because just about every public place is now off limits to concealed carry. The resulting lawsuits will go on for decades until a Liberal appointed court then sides with New York.

        • Happy you got the reference but lets be real he would be the degenerate trying to open the Lament Configuration.

        • “…he would be the degenerate trying to open the Lament Configuration.”

          True, but didn’t Pinhead eventually get sent to hell?

          The last one of those I saw was based in space (HR 3?), and kinda sucked. If there were subsequent ones, I didn’t bother to see ’em.

          The first ones I liked… 🙂

    • Good sweet baby Jeebus on a nuclear-powered pogo stick, dacian the stupid and deranged!! ” . . . the new abortion ban by the court . . . ” REALLY??? THAT’S your “take” on Dobbs, you incredibly-mentally-deficient asswipe???

      Dobbs did NO SUCH THING. It simply reversed Harry “Asshat” Blackmun’s absurd, “pulled it out of his ass” opinion, thereby returning regulation of abortion to the states. NO STATE has “outlawed” abortions. Several have placed restrictions, some of them severe, but NO STATE has “outlawed” abortions.

      You would lie if the truth would serve you better. dacian the demented, deranged, demonic dipshit of a dunderhead, you are probably not aware of this, but you do your Marxist/Leftist/fascist/”Progressive” cause more harm than good – your demented, deranged, fact-free rants make it easy to ignore reasoned arguments by those on the left . . . HAHAHAHAHA!!! “reasoned arguments by those on the left”!?!?!?! As if such things existed. Hell, MajorStupidity doesn’t even understand the logical fallacy of “argumentum ad hominem”, and he’s easily twice as smart as you are – his IQ is probably around that “49” number he touts in his handle. You prove the existence of “negative IQ”. Tell us again what an “educated” person you are, dacian. What’s your degree in, dacian???

    • Abortion was not banned. It was sent back to the States to decide. Even RBG had issues with how the “right” was established. The left had 50 years to make this into legislation or to make an actual Amendment for abortion. If the support for abortion was anywhere near the levels the left claims, then an Amendment would be easy to have done.

      When will we have a glimpse of this intellect and great amount of experience you so often tout? We have not seen it yet.

      • to Storm Trooper

        quote———–If the support for abortion was anywhere near the levels the left claims, then an Amendment would be easy to have done.——–quote

        Wrong the Republicans could not care less what the majority of the American people want. They only pander to their uneducated hillbillies. And with the filibuster they have prevented everything from stopping climate change, an affordable health plan, drug price controls, making it harder to vote for minorities and the poor and sane gun laws from being passed.

        • How the f#ck do you even sleep at night? Guess it must be easy for a person devoid of both intellect and conscience.

    • There used to be some “blue dog” Democrats, if they are from more rural areas they may not be going full anti, but if they move up the chain to a more visible position they will have to “see the light” and fully embrace the Democrat platform, gun bans, etc etc, or they will need to find a new party. It’s not rare to either endorse the lesser of evils or for politicians views to “evolve.” I mean, wouldn’t have thought Republicans would be making gun control deals either.

      I think there was some hope she wasn’t a female Cuomo on gun views but seems she is leading the charge for tyranny.

      • The NRA dropped tens of millions to support the GOP turncoats who just supported the Gun Control “compromise”.
        This was NO compromise, it was a conditional surrender.
        The GOP came to the negotiation table and asked for NOTHING!
        That’s the NRA $s at work in the 21st century.

        • Yes the NRA did, but is the NRA supporting them after their Treason? That’s the real question we need an answer to. The NRA didn’t tell these Quislings to vote for the Save The Criminals Act. They did it to be Butt Buddies with the Democrats, and because Mitch McConnell told them too.
          The NRA encouraged and begged its members to write the RINO’s asking them Not to F**k Gun Owners over. The Treasonous F**kers ignored those letters and emails.

    • Let the NRA go. They deceived me. And the few people who went to the latest NRA convention, most simply refused to believe the NRA is deceiving them. When they have the court trial in a couple of months, Wayne and the others will be gone. Forced out by their convictions for corruption.

      And I got another fund raising telephone call from them yesterday. I didn’t yell at the person. After she gave me her pitch, I calming told her the NRA was corrupt and Wayne had to go. Then I hung up on her. That information will get back to them.

      • Chris
        I went to Houston for the convention. Was really a lot of fun. Thats the 14 or 15th time I’ve been to it.
        I have never trusted wayne from the moment he became evp. Always had the feeling he’s a shyster. Turns out I was right.
        I’ve been a lifer since 1980 so might as well take advantage of it.

    • Just like current Senator then representative Kirsten Gillibrand who liked her ass off on supporting gun rights and turned into Schumer’s puppet the moment that probable Corning bastard got any real power. I may not support the NRA for a lot of things but I do not blame them as there was a time when not all Democrats were on board with banning gun rights and curtailing civil liberties. With that said should probably drop every Democrat’s rating by a grade or 2 unless they have proven themselves.

    • “A decade ago the NRA was funding Hochul……..”

      And at that time, and earlier, she was not the Governor of NYS and didn’t need to be following the narrative that blue state pols think is necessary for them to govern.

      Do the background research. It’s fairly normal for once-pro gun people to, shall we say, evolve in their principles.

      In IA, for example, long time AG Tom Miller used to back the Second Amendment and was always an A rating with NRA and gun owners. Over the past 15 years or so, and probably to maintain his life-long democrat creds, he’s moved far left with the rest of them and ranks F.

      The same is becoming obvious with our former li’l darling US Senator Joni Ernst, who touts military creds and how she used to castrate hogs and make ’em squeal, something she claimed she’d do in DC to the Leftists. A couple months after being elected for term 1, she started evolving to female victimhood, divorced her husband, forgot about making ’em squeal, and a couple weeks ago sided with the Biden regime in passing the Cornyn/Murphy gun law.

      About the only answer to this issue is provided in the quote by Lord Acton. (Again, do your own research…) Or, understand that many people even on this site used to get along with their now ex-wife. About the same thing.

      • The fact the NRA couldn’t put a partial repeal of the NFA (like removal of suppressors, hearing protection FCS) in a GOP negotiations rep quiver is INEXCUSABLE!

        There are two possibilities here.

        1) The NRA has little to no influence on the politicians they fund/wine/dine…..
        OR
        2) The NRA has little to no influence on the items being discussed/negotiated.

        Am I missing something here?

        • “Am I missing something here?” (and)
          “Where’s the NRA in this challenge to overturn the NFA?”

          Better question- where are the majority of firearms owners on repealing NFA? I work about 20 gun shows per year and other than a few die hards, there is very little interest in this, especially in states that use supressors.

          As I’ve stated in other postings, the place NO organization wants to be is on the losing end of a SCOTUS-type decision, where the entire war is now lost and membership, among others, leaves, since there’s little left to worry about other than complaining. This is the primary reason none of the other organizations will go pedal to the metal for this, either, except, as you 2 are doing- use the issue primarily as an NRA-bashing exercise. IF GOA, FPC, NAGR, SAF, et al are so wonderful and the new force, why aren’t they accomplishing this goal, since you make it sound so simple?

          It’s not a matter of reading and interpreting the language, it’s a matter of being able to enforce it if a change is made. You are going to be saddened if you think compliance with Bruen is going to be a piece of cake. It’ll likely be similar to the overturning of Roe- things won’t change much in the states that still allow, and now seem to recommend, abortions, and the number will not likely go down at all so long as abortion vacations, paid for by employers seem to be all the present rage.

          Neither Dobbs, nor Bruen has any, and I mean zero, support from the current Biden regime. Not much, either, from the Romney/Murkowsky/McConnell/Graham establishment GOP leaders. Compliance will not be enforced by the Feds in either case- in fact, they are already making plans on both to skirt them. And you think a ruling against NFA would open up a new set of circumstances for you?

          Time to start living in the real world. If this is your huckleberry, start making your point to the people outside of the firearms world and stop trying to get NRA, which obviously you feel is of no value, to do your job for you.

          It may take some start-up money, though… Just a bit.

        • I don’t think we can swing repeal right now, but we damn sure can get the right to select-fire and cans in all 50 states and territories…

        • “Where’s the NRA in this challenge to overturn the NFA?”

          OK, I watched the video.

          Since the ‘Heller’ decision clearly noted exceptionally-dangerous weapons (eg, machine guns) could be banned, I doubt Matt’s lawsuit will prevail.

          HOWEVER –

          I believe it’s very possible that we can get the select-fire registry re-opened, and maybe even getting the NFA tax stamp declared un-constitutional, as taxing a civil right is clearly unconstitutional, the same way Jim Crow era ‘Poll Taxes’ were clearly unconstitutional.

          My own personal point-of-view is, I really don’t mind the extensive vetting to get weapons like that, but I’d like the tax stamp to be *gone*…

    • And I sincerely hope New Yorkers will not come to our rectangular shaped western states unless they want to experience Gun diversity training: .357, 9 mm, .45 ACP.

  9. SCREW NEW YORK – I HAVE REFUSED TO GO THERE EVER !!! It’s a shithole of a big nasty and dirty city and I’ve never seen any sort of attraction to it. Same goes for L.A. and the other shitholes on the west coast.

  10. Yeah, actually, we really do want somebody to pull out a gun, if that’s what is needed.

  11. “But far-right justices can’t induce a cultural sea change around guns in places where the idea of carrying a concealed weapon remains very fringe—and that, in turn, might mean these states won’t see a flood of new weapons entering into circulation.”

    They’re forgetting the allure of the ‘Forbidden Fruit’ syndrome. There will be a *lot* of Ny’ers eager to flex their gun rights.

    Yeah, there will be some ass-hats. Over time, it will become normalized, the same way it’s no big deal today to see interracial couples out-n-about like everybody else.

    It will likely take at least 2 generations (40 years), but it will happen, and the Leftist Scum ™ know it.

    By then, of course, they may retake control of the SCotUS and strike ‘Bruen’, but cultural inertia at that point may make that a bridge they will not want to cross…

    • They cannot change what is coming/already happened with cultural change and their bail reform is what started and sealed it.

  12. “Indeed, 72 percent of New York gun owners told pollsters that they actually hoped the Supreme Court would uphold the “may issue” law.”

    I’d like to see some real proof of this statement. Did it also come from NPR?

    • Lets see do 7 out of 10 gun owners I know support this -no
      do 7 out of 10 pistol permit holders I know support this – lol no
      do 7 out of 10 unrestricted pistol permit holders I know support this – see above with more laughter
      do 7 out of 10 “fudds” I know support this – maybe if I cherry pick democrats that only hunt/shoot once a year and are still pissed off that Trump exists

      Guessing they surveyed Karen’s and Soi types.

  13. So the author of this article is acknowledging that individuals will make the decisions on their own and that is all the gun civil rights groups have ever asked for.

  14. Oh no. Not this guy again. John Donohu…

    “Indeed, 72 percent of New York gun owners told pollsters that they actually hoped the Supreme Court would uphold the “may issue” law.”

    What this guy does is use what he is told. I know the poll he is talking about. Comissioned by anti-gun – they found some gun owners who agreed with their viee points on may issue then asked them.. and of course they had this hope. Its not 72% of new York gun owners, its 72% of those they asked that already had their permits so the may issue was not a problem for them because they could cite a specific reason to justify it under may issue.

    • The “I have mine, so I’m not worried about it” crowd can go suck a fat nut. Even as a collector, I’d be thrilled to have a stash of imports come in that devalued my guns. Because that means more people getting to share them. The right to defend yourself with the best tools available doesn’t even devalue anything.

      What little data there is on the topic suggests that the average citizen is about 25 TIMES more likely to murder you with a gun than someone who has a Concealed Carry Permit. This seems counter-intuitive to folks like Albert, but it’s really obvious when even an ounce of thought is put into it.

      A gun owner willing to jump through hoops and pay money out of pocket just to keep following the law is not the person who’s gonna just start blasting.

      • I think even hardcore collectors realize a wider platform is beneficial for the firearm market overall.
        I would welcome losing money on my collection if it means more citizens are allowed to legally carry firearms.

  16. New York citizens are conditioned.

    Owning a gun doesn’t mean anything. It doesn’t make you a good guy or bad. All it means is gun ownership. Buying firearms does not make you a pro2A Republican either. Just like Trump is not a gun-guy and the AR15 is not an assault rifle. You can follow NICS checks in NY all you want but that will only telling you so much.

  17. NY and Calif are anti gun and pro soft on criminals.

    Sounds like a recipe for success!

    • It is exactly this that is expanding firearm ownership across all groups and why they are panicking and trying so hard to cut off the flow of new gun owners.

      • It would be real interesting to find out if the major manufacturers are hiring and tooling-up to crank out more guns.

        And I wonder with the pressure legal pressure off, will ammo prices finally settle down?

        • I can only say that the few online shippers that deliver to NY (well currently till September) have way more variety in brands and calibers at lower prices now than any time since the pandemic kicked off. Local stores have always had a flux to price and availability the last few years.

    • When everything is illegal, you will get a lot of lawbreakers. This is what they want, the ability to make someone a second class citizen for violating a city code or regulation, that isn’t against the law in most places. They can then take away your rights and stamp you on the forehead as “unclean!”

      • When they illegally brand me criminal I’m breaking all the laws. F them all

  18. Since those who actually apply for permits are the more law abiding types, I rather doubt there will be a major influx of guns used on the streets. There may be a slight uptick in DGU’s in higher crime neighborhoods for a few years. Until the local thugs and street level criminals begin to realize they could get shot for their efforts.
    Those who would be of concern for law enforcement are already armed and committing whatever crimes they choose to. Including those who have chosen to carry for self defense without the mother may I card.
    Much of the posturing is to pander to the politicians perceived base, attempting to score political points, and just plain old sour grapes over the SCOTUS deciding against their desires.

  19. Their just like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum when things don’t go their way. Sometimes they don’t even know why their throwing a tantrum. aoc for example

  21. The amount of licenses went from 90K in 2014 to about 345K in 2020 pre covid and there were something like 450K applications at the end of 2020. Although it may not be earth shattering in their minds, that’s not small potatoes and it’s going to be interesting in 30 years when people actually have figured out they have and can use their rights.

    Indeed, the culture doesn’t change overnight but it does change. We saw that with other democrat policies like Jim Crow.

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