At least, submitting a comment can truly matter. It mattered under the Obama administration when, in 2015, ATF gave up on banning M855 ammunition after receiving an overwhelming barrage of public comments against the proposed rule. From The Washington Post:

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said Tuesday it was backing down from a proposed ban on manufacturing and selling one of the most popular bullets used in AR-15 semiautomatic rifles.

The agency pulled the plug early, with still a week to go before the end of a one-month informal comment period on the proposed rule change that would have targeted these armor-piercing bullets. The ATF noted it had received more than 80,000 comments, and “the vast majority of the comments received to date are critical of the framework, and included issues that deserve further study.”

TTAG covered the news HERE.

Today, we’re faced with confusing, illogical, and subjective restrictions on the use of pistol stabilizing braces. We all need to submit a comment on ATF’s latest proposal. Click HERE to go directly to the public comment page, and for more information and ideas for comment topics, click below:

It’s Time: Make Yourself Heard RE ATF’s Latest Attack on Pistol Braces

RELATED ARTICLESMORE FROM AUTHOR

124 COMMENTS

    • I’m definitely wanting to comment, but I’m a bit torn. I took specific steps to create my own non-registered AR pistol that’s legal in CA (80% receiver before the 2018 cutoff date, build kit, bolt action mode via KaliKey BCG, etc.).

      If I submit my comment in support of the SBA3 brace, I’m doing my part, but then I’m placing myself squarely in the ATF’s radar – and by extension the CADOJ – as an AR pistol owner. And in CA, AR pistols are generally illegal unless one of the three factors are mitigated (semi-auto, centerfire, detachable mag). None of the LEOs within my circle of friends were even aware that a KaliKey makes my AR pistol legal, so there’s no way I can expect ATF/CADOJ to resist coming to my door to arrest me.

      This already happened to me once years ago, and I had to prove (with archived documentation in my possession) that the LE Agents at my home had their information wrong. I don’t feel like risking that again.

        • How? If you’re thinking about LE screening this site, then I clearly just explained above how my pistol is CA compliant for anyone reading it.

          Submitting a comment to the ATF via written letter to a separate destination is a completely different thing, and would possibly trigger a flag for further review.

        • There is the option to comment anonymously. You also do not have to even be a gun owner to comment. I have asked several non gun owning but gun rights supporting friends to comment. Just don’t post that you have anything that might be of interest to them, only post your thoughts on the matter.

          As for me, well, I think I am already on THE list. When they arrest and imprison me I would appreciate it if you all would write, donate to my defense, and put money in my commissary account.

      • Either we stand together against this and every single attack on our rights, or we will all meet at the prison yard for cocktails. And I have SBRs with paperwork. Don’t think that you’re the only one risking getting on the vindictive ATF radar.

      • You can always use the information of someone you know that is antigun. Nothing would change their mind on government overreach then the ATF smashing through their door, putting a gun to their kids head, and shooting their dog.

        Another option would be a demented family member. You may get the benefit see the ATF raid the nursing home and grandma trying to tackle one of the agents, buck naked, and having urinary incontinence as they try to drag her off……….and getting away with it.

        Just kidding on both of these. Send in your letter. They went into the ATF to “rule the peasants” not pick a fight with a whole street full of people who are likely to warm up the tar and open the bag of feathers after writing a letter that tells them to shove their “rule” change.

  2. Sure, just as much as it mattered on bump stocks.

    I’m going to still try, but be realistic about this. The ATF has already decided their course.

    • All this public comment is for is to build a legal defense against any constitutional challenges when Trump’s ATF declares braces illegal to own without a stamp. Making even more felons than when they said bump fire stocks are machine guns.

      A lot of young gun owners are going to be very pissed at Republicans. Likely causing the Republicans to lose midterms and keeping Joe for a second term, which he will die in office giving Kamala the title of first woman president. You might even get a woman president and a woman vice president. Then you get to experience what it is like to be a New Zealander.

    • The ATF has not decided their course! That is the biggest thing I get from this proposed “rule” change. They put almost zero objective data in the rule change that even they say is “objective”. Does the atf want to ban braces? Sure, it has been a black eye since they were outsmarted. This is a fishing expedition to see if the people are going to push back. No push back=ban. Some push back=rifle caliber rounds, guns over a certain weight, can’t use a certain accessory too, etc. All out push back=Sorry biden you are going to have to change this with congress. The number and percentage of pro/con comments between bump stocks and the M855, the fact they are doing this during Christmas week, right after an election, during a pandemic is the proof that the atf needs a low number of people to respond for it to be successful.

  3. Vagueness doctrine

    Definition

    1) A constitutional rule that requires criminal laws to state explicitly and definitely what conduct is punishable.  Criminal laws that violate this requirement are said to be void for vagueness.  Vagueness doctrine rests on the due process clauses of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments of the U.S. Constitution.  By requiring fair notice of what is punishable and what is not, vagueness doctrine also helps prevent arbitrary enforcement of the laws.

    2) Under vagueness doctrine, a statute is also void for vagueness if a legislature’s delegation of authority to judges and/or administrators is so extensive that it would lead to arbitrary prosecutions.

    Illustrative caselaw :

    See, e.g. Skilling v. United States, 130 S.Ct. 2896 (2010).

    • Thanks! I copied this and submitted it as part of my comment against extending and further clouding the NFA’s silly regulations.
      When they can logically explain how a 15” barreled rifle requires a $200 transfer or making tax, intrastate transport restrictions, 21 years old to possess, and lifetime registration … and a 16” barreled rifle doesn’t … then maybe I can start to understand the asinine NFA.

  4. Comments submitted. One comment (supposedly like one vote) can make a difference. We can’t give up trying to keep at bay those entities (whether individuals or governmental agencies) working to take away our freedoms & liberties. Period!

    • Agree. We can’t give up because “they” don’t give up. Sure, we won’t win 100% of the time, but we’ve got to try.

  5. From the WaPo article mentioned about the response to ban gree-tip ammo :

    “U.S. Rep. Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.) wrote a letter co-signed by 236 members of Congress to express their “serious concern.” Fifty-two senators also expressed their displeasure with the ATF’s proposal.”

    Is the same thing happening with this proposal? Are the House and Senate unified in opposing this?

    My response to the ATF deals with how that proposal impacts disabled citizens, and will likely be ruled a violation of the ‘Americans with Disabilities Act’, a law with serious teeth in it to force compliance on those that dare to violate it.

    It’s high time we use the Leftist playbook against them…

  6. with the rampant corruption in all of our “letter”agencys the idea of re-doing the regs is not a good idea. but and with very careful and very thorough review of all of the cross-controlled knee-jerk regulations that have been slamed through the agency by lawyers that have “other agendas” and weeded out and then put up for review by someone other than a bunch of control freaks .it is possible to get a viable rule that abides by the constitution AS WRITTEN. under the republicans ,possible. under the demo/communists ,totally impossible….

  7. Sigh! Can we talk about something other than pistol braces and bump stocks? You know. Like real firearms.

      • A Redneck walked up to me one day at the gas station and said, ” Well I had to go bi-sex-ual ” I said “What do you mean you Had to go bisexual?” He said ” Well my sister ran off and my cousin, she wants paid for it, yup I had to go buy sex you all” ,,, first by possum on TTAG, dont want that one getting stole

      • Jim, I understand exactly what they’re doing and I don’t like it a bit. I would just like to talk about something else.

        • No you whiner, we’re CAN’T talk about anything besides bump stocks and braces because MY RIGHTS ARE BEING INFRINGED ON THESE ITEMS, IT’S GONNA BE THE FIREARMS NEXT YOU RETARDED PECKER EATING H O M O ….

    • So if I put a pistol brace or a bump stock on my AR, would it suddenly become not a real gun? Or is it already not “real” since it doesn’t have wood furniture or weigh over 8 pounds? Inquiring minds want to know.

      • Ing, I didn’t say that and you damn well know it. Bump stocks and pistol braces are accessories. If we were getting article after article on lasers my sentiments would be the same. As an an aside, I would have to conduct a census, but I’m guessing at least half of my firearms don’t have as much as a splinter of wood in their construction. Oh, and I like them as lightweight as possible within their particular envelope. What pisses me off are those guys that think if it isn’t manufactured by Rubbermaid it’s not a gun.

        • I’m so glad, you, a former LEO, whose “rights” are protected in the same laws that strip those of the citizen peon, speak for the entirety of the People Of The Gun.
          I’m so glad you care not for the AR-15. Or the bump stock. Or the pistol brace.

          This site is about all things gun related. There is no mandate to read any particular article. There is no requirement to post your salient whining about any topic. You are free, in fact, to keep your opinions to yourself.

          How about “Don’t Tread On Me”, as per your moniker, instead of “Tread on Everyone Over There”.

        • 300, what special rights are you talking about? I’d like to know because I’m not aware of them. I sure could have used them a couple of weeks ago when I bought a new rifle. I filled out the 4473, paid for my background check and would have endured the three day waiting period. Except in Florida if you have a valid hunting license you can walk out the door with a long gun. I don’t have CCW license. So the three day wait still applies to me where handguns are concerned. Oh wait! That does bring one privilege to mind. I don’t need a CCW. I do have to qualify annually with both pistol and revolver since I carry both. Non LEO citizens are exempt from that requirement. Of course you to can earn that privilege. All you have to do is spend several thousand dollars to attend a LE academy and pin on a badge and strap on a duty belt. Then you too can direct traffic in the rain after a crash, wrestle with a crack dealer on the hot pavement in the projects in August, go to court on your day off, try to explain to your children why you can’t be home on Christmas/ their birthday/etc. Then there’s that whole thing about being scared shitless every so often. That’s always fun. Of course, that’s offset by the enormous check you get every two weeks.

          On the AR thing. Don’t blame me because it’s a shitty design. Blame Eugene Stoner.

          Last, a bit of personal advice. Ignorance is best kept to yourself.

        • I can respect the badge, but not the person. LEO aren’t the only who sacrifice.

          There is no ignorance in my post – simply calling you out as an arrogant FUDD who is literally whining on a public forum because the articles aren’t of interest to you.

          There are plenty of LEO carve outs in law throughout the country. Just because there aren’t many in Fla (or, you choose to not avail yourself of them) doesn’t mean they don’t exist, and that you could benefit from them, when the rest of the Animals cannot.

        • Dude… YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE BEEN SMOKING CRACK WITH THOSE GHETTO FELONS YOU LIKE TO WRESTLE WITH (weird why anyone would want to do that, but you do you)… BUT I’LL BE DAMNED IF I SIT HERE AND READ THE WHINING OF SOME EX PIG ABOUT HOW TOUGH HIS F K N JOB IS….. GO GET A REAL F K N JOB AND THEN YOU’LL KNOW WHAT IT MEANS TO ACTUALLY WORK FOR A LIVING…..

          GD YOU PIGS MAKE ME SICK LISTENING TO YOUR PATHETIC WHINING

        • Pigs, I really don’t like donuts, or coffee. Except Mom’s pecan pie at Thanksgiving and Christmas. I pick up the pecans in her yard every fall. As far as tough (that’s the correct spelling) goes my first job was in the local tobacco fields. Since local labor laws didn’t apply to agriculture I could legally work younger than 16. I think I was 12 when I started. A tobacco field in N FL in August qualifies as hard work. $1.10 an hour BTW. At 16 I went to work at my uncle’s service station. Full service. As well as oil changes, tire repairs, belt and hose changes, etc. Minimum wage. After high school it was basic training, airborne school and a nice long vacation in the 75th Infantry Regiment. Then it was a few years with the local Anhauser Bush distributorship. Twenty Busch suitcases weigh about 500 lbs. Pull that up curbs and steps from dawn till dark all summer in Florida heat. Of course, that was good money. Paid for my wife’s education. Then I accidentally fell into law enforcement. So, yeah, I know a little bit about busting my ass. Oh, just so you know. Capitalizing on line is the same thing as hysterical screaming. It’s rude and not conducive to reasonable conversation. But then again, maybe you have a cunt.

        • Geoff, you are right. But since I don’t travel outside of any state that doesn’t recognize Florida CCW anyway it doesn’t matter. What I’m laughing at is these boomers experts/waiting for boomers to die off. Here’s a clue for you idiots. Every day you wake up you’re a day closer to death. From the day you were born squalling in your mother’s crotch you starting dying. Here’s another epiphany for you. You’re not more intelligent than the previous generations. At least in common sense. Mark Twain said. (And I paraphrase) “When I was seventeen I was convinced my father was the most ignorant man on earth. When I was twenty-five I was amazed at how much he had learned in eight years.” Geoff, I like your comments. What I wonder is; how many of those AR, plastic pistol, video commandos shot a deer in the head at 100 yards this afternoon. Or, even actually even produced a firearm in any kind of an adversarial confrontation. I’ve done it hundreds of times. But, that’s just me.

        • Hey, I don’t know what kind of guns you own. (Other than talking about .45 acp a lot, that is.) I just read between the lines, as “must have walnut/be a heavy relic/be a scoped boltie” is what people usually mean when they bring up “real guns.”

          As for wishing the topic would turn toward actual guns instead of accessories of dubious utility that you don’t own, we’re mostly in the same boat there, but I figure it’s okay if this dominates the airwaves for a while.

          If they get this one without a fight because nobody on our side felt any urgency, the leftist bastards will have the ATF chasing down something we DO own all the sooner.

        • Ing, I own at least as many 9mm as I do .45 ACP handguns. And like them. I just recognize a 9mm limitations.

      • Warwolf, what’s wrong with a 1911, a model 19 and an M-1 rifle? I have a Wilson 1911 next to my recliner, a 6″ 19 (pinned barrel & and recessed chambers) on my coffee table now. The M-1 is in the safe. Sorry. Carry any of them into battle tommorw.

      • Wtf??? Uh look here you f k n snot nosed punk.. … just because you dont have the wrist strength to properly hold a 1911 is not the guns problem…… it’s your problem for being a limp wristed H O M O

  8. 4 years ago I told Trump tards we would get more gun control. Never did I think he would be more aggressive against gun owners than Obama. He has given the ATF carte blanche. Harris will be most pleased at Cheetos’ precedents.

    • That’s a complete lie. Obama was stopped by a GOP Congress. And in the two years Obama had Congress, gun control just wasn’t a hot topic.

      • For the first two years of Obama it wasn’t a hot topic?

        No, Obama/Biden were busy expanding your gun rights to millions of acres of federally managed, taxpayer owned lands, through the CARD Act.

        The act was passed at about the same time Donald Trump sent his investigative team to Hawaii to find Barack Obama‘s birth certificate.

        Trumps team hasn’t reported back, they were last seen boarding a ship named SS Minnow for a three hour tour.

      • Obama wasn’t very excited to push gun control. His ATF director was busy trying to change the culture against guns. Obama did what he needed to do to please the Democrat voters but he didn’t push hard enough to get it done like Trump did. Trump even doubled down on Obama’s import restrictions.

        Obama’s biggest victories were strengthening IP law, increasing corporatism in medical care, bailing out corporations with tax money and renewing Republicans’ tyrannical police state policies.

        Obviously Trump topped Obama on everything and did more in only 4 years. The Democrats love the man, hence why Antifa was created.

      • Did the GOP congress and senate stop Trump with his gun control? Of course not. Even when Trump called them… scared of the NRA.

      • Whattaya know, Chief and Miner show up simultaneously to defend Obama….

        “Blah blah blah blah blah Democrat’s Obama Rulez’”

        • Ronnie, you seem to enjoy ignoring the facts of the situation. I understand you don’t want the truth to interfere with your treasured delusions but aren’t you embarrassed by being played for a fool by Donald Trump?

          And no, I’m not the chief, or related to him, I have no idea who or where he is. And there is certainly no coordination between our comments.

          Why don’t you ask Jeremy S if the chief and I are the same person, he’s already doxed me by revealing my IP location as if I give a shit about that. It’s clear that none of you blabbermouths ever pose a real threat.

          On another subject, what do you think about the liberals recruiting Fox News into their voter fraud conspiracy, even Lou Dobbs is admitting there was no voting machine fraud.

          Oh I’m sorry, did I step on your delusions again, pardon me.

  9. Look at the calendar. Who is in the office right now to hear your complaints?

    Nobody. They don’t give a crap, new boss is in town and they’re doing whatever they want.

  10. I submitted my comment… The site still says 0 comments received. I realize it’s since 11:59 PM yesterday, but… really?

  11. The batfags don’t give two shits what you or I have to say about arm braces. Period. If you think it was the comments that led them to pull the plug on the green tip scenario, you are woefully naive.

  12. Cowboys ain’t easy to love, And they’re harder to hold, Trump is not concerned about the ATF at all right now his main focus is on a rigged election, while they stomp on our 2a rights he’s trying to figure out where things went wrong we the American people demand that he stops this shit, after all he did take the Oath to uphold and protect the Constitution of the United States and right now it’s damn sure not being protected and I for one have let my State Rep know that our 2A rights is being erased from the constitution I urge everyone that is sick and tired of hearing about these anti gun politician’s everyday screaming about gun control to contact your State Rep let them know how you feel all of us can’t make it to Washington on a daily basis but they can be our voice at least it’s a start if we don’t fight back they will take every damn thing we own and don’t say it won’t do any good that’s thinking negative we got to fight back any way we can if we don’t want our rights and freedom taken away it’s not just for us but or kids and grandkids, I just be damned if I will set and let them trample on my rights and freedom without doing anything.

  14. Thanks for the heads up and links to the appropriate information/ATF form. If only mainstream media would do some timely research and provide similar links in their half ass daily blurbs and spews (instead of just filling their news-holes that is). Many people don’t realize feedback to any government entity is actually a vote. Ditto I say about each purchase you make. That’s some of the tools I got, limited but going to use them or lose them.

    • Them Florida deer ain’t much bigger then a dog Gadsden Flag, you aught to come out to the midwest, doe’s usually field dress out around 5, 6 hundred pounds. LOL, By the way did I happen to mention the 700lb Flathead I caught this spring, probably not, I dont like to brag or stretch stories. (my girlfiend taught me when it comes to telling stories always add a zero),,,,Whoop whoop

      • Possum, does killing deer in Missouri qualify as the Midwest? If so I have a nice 10 point hanging on the wall I killed just outside of Columbia. Of course, he didn’t out weigh the 230 lb 8 pt I killed five miles west of my front door. He’s hanging next to the 140 B&C 205 lb 8 pt I killed about 1000 yards away a year before. They’re a little hard to pick out among the fourteen other shoulder mounts hanging around them. I’ve killed deer in Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, South Carolina, New York and Missouri. You can kill big deer anywhere, but there is a secret to it. You just can’t kill them when they’re young.

  17. OMG! I used a FUDD rifle! Stainless Winchester Model 70 action, HS Precision stock, Shilen match grade barrel (1:10″) 21″, recessed crown, bolt faced trued, trigger job, etc., etc., etc. Head shot. A doe for meat so nothing wasted. If Elmer hunted with something like that Bugs would have been rabbit stew when I was ten. 😆

    • Stfu…. now go screw your sister you dumb redneck…. the one thing worse than a whining ex leo is a inbred redneck whining ex leo PIG

      • Gafsden, you trolls are funny in a pathetic sort of way. Well, I’m a bet peckish, so I’m going to finish off my seaweed salad and sushi from last night. Then I have to yank the hide off this deer. So you trolls enjoy your night in your mom’s damp basement. We’ll talk tomorrow.

    • You know, they’re gonna come for your “sniper rifle” (your deer gun) next.

      You realize that, right?

      • Just, finished eating and I do have to get busy on this deer. However, what deer rifle/sniper rifle? What assault rifles? I don’t own any. Those high capacity magazines? What are you talking about? Maybe you guys should step off my front porch.

      • That fudd is an idiot. The end goal of every gun control group is to get rid of EVERY gun. They’ll start with the “lowhanging fruit”- scary looking guns and things they can paint as something no “reasonable” gun owner would want or need. And when we don’t stand as a united front, regardless of whether or not we personally care for the item they’re attacking this week, we help them.

        They will eventually come around to his “Winchester Model 70 action, HS Precision stock, Shilen match grade barrel (1:10″) 21″, recessed crown, bolt faced trued, trigger job, etc., etc., etc.” and I, for one, hope he sobs like a little baby when they throw it on the ground like a piece of trash and then run over it with a steamroller.

  18. The brace thing is in response to them losing the battle about SS109, they made braces legal so people would make 556 pistols, so they could ban ammo like they did for AK’s. When that failed, it was the long game to get ride of braces.

  19. You dingleberries can’t mind your own business but expect to get others to do so by begging. Pathetic. Face it; you’re foul-natured peasants, you deserve everything that happens to you and you’ll keep getting it because you’re weak. Now go pay some unqualified lobbyist or fake billionaire to tell you you’re cool and I’m a russian.

    • Probably not a Russian (they aren’t as dumb as you appear to be), but you are a filthy POS….. And if you were any kind of real man you wouldn’t be posting threats on a firearms forum….
      You will get your just reward soon enough…… soon enough.

  22. The last time Trump’s ATF did this they used the public comments to build a legal case to ban bump fire stocks. They took all the arguments made by those that didn’t want them banned and retorted to every point in a manner to prevent legal challenge. Then they hired a temporary director to carry out Trump’s orders. Afterwards the AG and ATF demanded people turn in their stocks or else. They even destroyed a large amount of stocks, from a single company, using a chipper as they filmed it for the public to watch.

    Now they are doing it again, as I predicted they would. Back when Trump said he wanted to do away with bump fire stocks I said you guys will realize your fatal error when they go after your precious braces. Don’t be surprised when the Democrats do the same as the Republicans but make even crazier arguments, such as saying magazines are weapons of mass destruction (a Bush era term).

    Of course the NRA will be all in for the police state. They just want to get back to business with some get togethers without covid restrictions so they can raise money for themselves again.

  23. Anyone believing that “public comments” on unilaterally made unconstitutional rules cooked up by the commies at BATFEces actually has any impact on their agenda and plans is a SPECIAL kind of stupid.

  24. I’m gonna make this shortened sweet. This new guidelines are completely wrong and absurd our pistol braces are complying with the intent which they are. This is a complete infringement of our constitutional right. We are law abiding citizensThe ones you really should be going after the criminals.
    Thank you

  25. I tried to comment on the pistol braces a week ago. The GOV closed it it down a week early tried again today still closed.

  31. This new guidelines are completely wrong and absurd our pistol braces are complying with the intent which they are. This is a complete infringement of our constitutional right. bubble shooter

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    Дозировка. Препарат считается
    эффективным при длительности лечения
    не менее 6 месяцев и не более 12 месяцев.
    При более длительном лечении прием препарата необходимо осуществлять под присмотром врача.

    Внимание! Категорически запрещается использование лекарственных средств с истекшим сроком годности,
    так как это может привести к неблагоприятным последствиям.

    Принимать лекарство необходимо каждые 2 часа по одной таблетке, запивая стаканом воды.
    Через час можно принимать вторую таблетку.

    Курс лечения составляет 4 недели.

    Данная форма выпуска применяется только для лечения детей.
    Препараты данной формы выпуска не рекомендуется использовать для лечения
    женщин и подростков. Беременность не является противопоказанием для применения данного лекарства.

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